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[pct-l] Re: Early season Streams Techniques and problem creeks
- Subject: [pct-l] Re: Early season Streams Techniques and problem creeks
- From: aandg at telusplanet.net (Alistair & Gail Des Moulins)
- Date: Tue Jan 6 21:54:09 2004
- References: <20040106031727.E4C6E3C4F7@edina.hack.net>
Like Ray E we used 'surfboard shoes' with a good rubber bottom and mesh top
for most of the stream crossings in 2003. However, sometimes our feet were
so wet from hiking through the snow that we did not bother changing shoes.
Hypothermia was not a problem in the High Sierra as the weather was
generally sunny and not too cold. We left KM on May 29 and reached Tuolomne
Meadows on June 19.
Many others have referred to the deep crossing of Evolution Creek - we found
it waist deep but slow in the meadows on June 12 so no real problem.
Some other 'creeks' were more of a problem:
Tyndall Creek Map H2 Mile 769.2 - we found an easier crossing half a mile
north where 3 streams join so the water could be crossed in 3 sections.
Kings River Map H6 Mile 806.4 - crossing easier just downstream from trail.
Bear Creek Map H14 Mile 861.9 - Very fast creek - I slipped crossing it and
soaked my camera - hung it up in a tree while we went to VVR the next day!
North Mono Creek H15 Mile 874.3 - Fast creek - only the weight in our packs
kept us from being swept away! We did cross late in the day though.
After Tuolomne Meadows on June 21 we came to Kerrick Canyon (Map I6 Mile
975.1) and could not cross the creek in the evening so we camped and just
managed to get across first thing next morning.
They are the only problem streams I can remember at the moment.
The streams in Washington could potentially be a problem in wetter years but
some people find them intimidating more due to the muddy glacial water.
Alistair
----- Original Message -----
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To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 9, Issue 4
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO? (Stephen Gookin)
> 2. Re: convinced-Goat Rocks (Tom Griffin)
> 3. RE: ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO? (Marge Prothman)
> 4. Re: Failed Bag/Tent Combination (Marshall Karon)
> 5. Re: ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO? (Bighummel@aol.com)
> 6. Re: Six Moon Designs - Starlite Pack - Thru-Hike Test Program
> (Judith Rush)
> 7. Revisit: Umbrella Attachment for PCT Hike (Hiker97@aol.com)
> 8. Re: adiabatic/katabatic air (CMountainDave@aol.com)
> 9. Re: Failed Bag/Tent Combination (CMountainDave@aol.com)
> 10. Re: Failed Bag/Tent Combination (CMountainDave@aol.com)
> 11. Re: Re: convinced-Goat Rocks (ECPG)
> 12. Early Season Fording Techniques? (RBALCORN@cs.com)
> 13. Re: Early Season Fording Techniques? (Stephen Gookin)
> 14. Re: adiabatic/katabatic air (Marshall Karon)
> 15. PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO? (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
> 16. Fording Creeks (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
> 17. Re: Early Season Fording Techniques? (CMountainDave@aol.com)
> 18. Re: Early Season Fording Techniques? (Ken Powers)
> 19. Re: Early Season Fording Techniques? (Marshall Karon)
> 20. Re: ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO? (Eric Yakel)
> 21. Re: ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO? (Eric Yakel)
> 22. Re: Early Season Fording Techniques? (Eric Yakel)
> 23. Re: ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO? (AsABat)
> 24. Re: Early Season Fording Techniques? (AsABat)
> 25. RE: Early Season Fording Techniques? (Judson Brown)
> 26. Re: Early Season Fording Techniques? (Ken Powers)
> 27. Re: adiabatic/katabatic air (Kevin Corcoran)
> 28. Camp Shoes (Ken Marlow)
> 29. Kelty Triptease, don't do it? (Ken Marlow)
> 30. RE: Kelty Triptease, don't do it? (Eric Lee (GAMES))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 11:33:16 -0800 (PST)
> From: Stephen Gookin <themtgoat@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20040105193316.73680.qmail@web40912.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I was planning on missing the ADZPCTKO in 2005, so I would also like to
know.
> Or is this something I should absolutly make time for.
>
> -The Mt Goat-
>
> Steve Setzer <Steven.Setzer@Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>
> I think I should re-phrase my question. Will I be missing important
> information if I miss the ADZPCTKO? Or will I be able to figure all this
> out with no problem as I go? Will the water info/trail conditions
> be available on this list or will the ADZPCTKO be the only source for
> this info?
>
> Steve
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003From
rmoak@sixmoondesigns.com Mon Jan 5 14:02:32 2004
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> Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:01:31 -0800
> From: "Ron Moak" <rmoak@sixmoondesigns.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>, <at-l@backcountry.net>,
> <cdt-l@backcountry.net>
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:01:35 -0800
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> Cc:
> Subject: [pct-l] Six Moon Designs - Starlite Pack - Thru-Hike Test Program
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>
> Greetings PCT, AT and CDT 2004 Thru-hikers,
>
> After months in development, the next generation of Six Moon Designs packs
> (The Starlite) will be shipping next month. In our ongoing test program,
> we're looking for six thru-hikers, two each from the AT, PCT and CDT to
test
> the new pack on a thru-hike. While these packs are provided free of
charge,
> there are a few conditions.
>
> This offer is being made only to members of the AT-L, PCT-L and CDT-L
> mailing list. If you are interested in participating in our program,
please
> reply to me. I'll furnish details of the program for interested
individuals
> in the next week.
>
> More information about the new pack can be found at:
> http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/products/starlite.asp
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Moak
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -------------------------
> Six Moon Designs
> Phone: (503) 430-2303
>
> Makers of Innovative Ultralight Hiking Gear ......
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:40:58 -0800
> From: Tom Griffin <griffin@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: [pct-l] Re: convinced-Goat Rocks
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <BC1F0BDA.78E%griffin@u.washington.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> >> I am totally convinced that a cart is out of the question and
dangerous, I am
> >> convinced that a string of pack animals are the only way to go, and
several
> >> wrote and informed me so, I am convinced that a over weight handicapped
> >> person, can do this with no problems, providing I take enough food, I
have
> >> convinced my son to do this first trip with me, from the Columbia River
to
> >> whites pass in May,that will be the drop of & pick up area,does any
body have
> >> an idea just how far and how long it will take, remembering that this
is
> >> going to ba a big hike and camp out,first trip,,,,! <<
> >
> > From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.org>
> > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:41:40 -0700
> >
> > A string of pack animals may or may not be a good idea going over the
Goat
> > Rocks.
> > Cheers,
> > Marge (the old gal)
>
> Marge is right. If this is your first trip, I urge you NOT to take your
pack
> animals over the Goat Rocks between Snowgrass Flat and Elk Pass. The trail
> is very narrow as it goes along the ridge crest. Also, there are times
when
> you are walking on a narrow ledge and another point there is an icy
glacier
> to cross.
>
> Last summer, when our group hiked over this stretch (some call it the
> "Knifes' Edge"), there was an experienced horse party behind us. One of
the
> horses lost its footing on the glacier, slipped and slid down the rock
> field, cutting its leg badly. The leader of the horse party later told me
he
> would have never taken that stretch of trail if he had known how difficult
> it was for stock. I am sure that are experts who can do it, but for a
> first-time trip you are asking for trouble, in my opinion.
>
> Here is a link to some pictures of that stretch:
> http://staff.washington.edu/griffin/day14.html
>
> Tom Griffin
> Seattle
> http://staff.washington.edu/griffin/pct.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:53:43 -0700
> From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.org>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
> To: "'Stephen Gookin'" <themtgoat@yahoo.com>,
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000701c3d3ce$01d229a0$6501a8c0@marge20g04myym>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Steve,
> I cannot answer for the ADZPCTKO organizers, but in the past years the
only
> time you
> can get the information on the water supplies etc. is from Meadow Ed at
the
> ADZPCTKO
> Event, He has been checking it out on his way to Lake Morena.
>
> If you start sooner you take your chances on what stream is running etc
and
> where the stashes of water are located. However if you are only starting a
> couple of days early, find someone on the list who could pick you up and
> bring you down to the Kickoff and then return
> You back to where you came off the trail.
>
> In my opinion, not only water information, the Kickoff has become part of
> your experience in the PCT thru hike. One day my turn will come.
> Cheers,
> Marge [The Old Gal]
> http://www.prothman.org/marge
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
> [mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Gookin
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 12:33 PM
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
>
>
> I was planning on missing the ADZPCTKO in 2005, so I would also like to
> know. Or is this something I should absolutly make time for.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 13:10:35 -0800
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Failed Bag/Tent Combination
> To: "Jim Keener" <jkeener@pct04.com>, "Pacific Crest Trail"
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <002501c3d3d0$5ce2c690$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1F>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> If you finish by the end of September, you will probably be just fine -
even
> till mid October. Rain will surely fall, but often not daily; so you can
dry
> out. As others have written, it often doesn't matter whether you have a
tent
> or tarp, just keep away from the sides and make sure the bag stays dry.
>
> Besides the rain you do need to handle the cold. Frozen boots are no fun.
> Carry extra plastic bags to wrap boots, socks, etc. and then sleep with
them
> inside your bag so they don't freeze.
>
> Be sure to have a good pad - the foam ones will degrade in a thru-hike,
so
> replace them, especially in Washington. Being cold from underneath was my
> main problem.
>
> Marshall Karon
> Portland, OR
> m.karon@comcast.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Keener" <jkeener@pct04.com>
> To: "Pacific Crest Trail" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:15 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] Failed Bag/Tent Combination
>
>
> > Greetings:
> >
> > I camped at Point Reyes National Seashore in Marin County, California
this
> > weekend at a place called Glen Camp. Don't know the temperature, but
there
> > was frost on the ground and my Tarptent, and puddles had frozen over.
> There
> > was fog in the air and the ground was super-saturated due to recent
> deluges
> > in the area.
> >
> > I was very cold when I got in the bag (Marmot Helium - rated to 15F) and
> > never did warm up well. Lots of condensation - on the tent and the bag.
> The
> > bag got wet from the condensation. By 4 a.m., I was shivering. Got up,
ate
> > and hiked.
> >
> > This was okay for one night. But I'm concerned about Washington. The
idea
> of
> > putting that bag away wet and getting back into it without its being
dried
> > has me very concerned. I'm looking for ideas.
> >
> > I still like the Tarptent a lot and plan to carry the Helium on the JMT
> part
> > of the trail, but as I wrote, I am concerned about Washington.
> >
> > Peace,
> > Jim
> >
> > http://pct04.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:34:40 EST
> From: Bighummel@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <1a3.1eeec457.2d2b3270@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> themtgoat@yahoo.com writes:
> Will the water info/trail conditions
> be available on this list or will the ADZPCTKO be the only source for
> this info?
> The organizers of the ADZPCTKO are considering a "Southern California
Water,
> Snow, Fire and Trail Conditions" website that thru-and section hikers can
post
> info to for those that follow to pick up online. This may or may not come
to
> fruitition. The problem, of course, with trail info is that it quickly
> becomes out of date and is only as good as the last report, provided that
report is
> recent enough. Thus, the report traditionally given by Meadow Ed at the
> kickoff is THE best info you can get at that time. We are making sure
that this
> info is at least made available in copied form this year so that all of
the
> hikers need not take down all of the info by hand from mouth.
>
> More info on the 6th ADZPCTKO will be posted shortly and the website will
be
> updated soon also.
>
> Greg "Strider" Hummel
> ADZPCTKO Coordinator
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:44:10 -0500
> From: "Judith Rush" <crush@ptd.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Six Moon Designs - Starlite Pack - Thru-Hike Test
> Program
> To: <rmoak@sixmoondesigns.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>,
> <at-l@backcountry.net>, <cdt-l@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000f01c3d3f6$94aa2520$e533ee18@cmts.tv13.ptd.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> What does pack cloth weight mean , is that the total weight of the pack
??
> Carl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Moak" <rmoak@sixmoondesigns.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>; <at-l@backcountry.net>;
> <cdt-l@backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:01 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Six Moon Designs - Starlite Pack - Thru-Hike Test Program
>
>
> > Greetings PCT, AT and CDT 2004 Thru-hikers,
> >
> > After months in development, the next generation of Six Moon Designs
packs
> > (The Starlite) will be shipping next month. In our ongoing test program,
> > we're looking for six thru-hikers, two each from the AT, PCT and CDT to
> test
> > the new pack on a thru-hike. While these packs are provided free of
> charge,
> > there are a few conditions.
> >
> > This offer is being made only to members of the AT-L, PCT-L and CDT-L
> > mailing list. If you are interested in participating in our program,
> please
> > reply to me. I'll furnish details of the program for interested
> individuals
> > in the next week.
> >
> > More information about the new pack can be found at:
> > http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/products/starlite.asp
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ron Moak
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > -------------------------
> > Six Moon Designs
> > Phone: (503) 430-2303
> >
> > Makers of Innovative Ultralight Hiking Gear ......
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:41:43 -0500
> From: Hiker97@aol.com
> Subject: [pct-l] Revisit: Umbrella Attachment for PCT Hike
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <62D522BB.1D95A8C0.00176F47@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> There seems to be still some questions on the thorny question of holding
an umbrella hands-free. The best I have found is with cheap and very light
weight foam pipe installation. This is if you want your hands free while
hiking, as with 2 hiking poles.
>
> 1. Basically, take a straight umbrella shaft (mine is about 24 inches
long)and put it down the center hole in the foam (tape the foam with duct
tape to hold it closed, since one side is already cut for installation over
a pipe). You must cut the foam to length for the height you want your
umbrella to ride. The umbrella shaft acts as a stiffener for the foam pipe
installation.
> 2. Specifically, attach the foam to your pack by placing a small flat
portion (12X12 inches?)of a Zrest pad inside your pack next to your back.
Cut two slits and pass some Velcro through and tighten around the foam and
pad. All your gear and the top of your pack closed will keep this holding
assembly VERY tightly in your pack.
> 3. Attached the umbrella to the foam pipe installation by using 2
mini-bungie cords (.25 oz each). One end of the bungies metal hook is
tucked under some Velcro around the foam pipe (another piece of Velcro over
the bungies cords and around the foam pipe for extra security)and the other
ends to the underside of the umbrella. Do not stretch the bungies too much.
Just snug. I also bend the hooks a little so they are a little more secure
for the underside of the umbrella. Do not attch the hooks directly to the
umbrella framework, but go up and over several ribs near the shaft and hook
them back to the bungie cord.
> 4. To colapse the umbrella, just undo the 2 bungie connections under the
umbrella and take the umbrella out of the foam hole. Fold the umbrella up
and put it away. It is as simple as that. Takes may be 10-20 seconds to
set-up once out of your storage bag/pack pocket. And the same for taking
down.
>
> This system is extremely cheap, light, secure, and easy to use. Also, I
attach a cord to the bottom of the umbrella shaft to put over my wrist or
anchor to the ground with a tent peg if needed. And of course, put some
relective tape around the foam pipe sticking up out of your pack for your
hitchhiking safety or general visability at night. Later, Switchback
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:21:34 EST
> From: CMountainDave@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] adiabatic/katabatic air
> To: pct-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <110.2cc3b75d.2d2b4b7e@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/04 10:13:21 AM, Steven.Setzer@Colorado.EDU writes:
>
> << This summer I spent a few days in the Colorodo mountains climing 14ers.
I
> camped in the same area every night and did day hikes from camp. Every
> night my buddy slept down by a creek and I camped about 100 yard away and
> maybe 50 feet higher. In the morning, I'd wake up warm and dry. As I
> walked downhill to wake my friend up, I'd feel the air get suddenly
> colder. >>>
> Oh how true this is! We were camped in the Olympics and the exact same
thing
> occurred: all the cold air sank and stayed along the creek bed. It was
cold
> and damp. You could see your breath and people were dressed warmly with
hats on.
> I climbed up a hill about 200 vertical feet to a clearing and it was
sunny,
> warm and dry. I stripped down to shorts and took a sun bath for a couple
of
> hours. When I went back to the main camp, everyone was still bundled up.
They
> thought I was nuts when I told them how much warmer it was just a few
hundred
> yards away uphill
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:23:09 EST
> From: CMountainDave@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Failed Bag/Tent Combination
> To: kentr-lists@sbcglobal.net, jkeener@pct04.com,
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <182.252269dd.2d2b4bdd@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/04 10:17:44 AM, kentr-lists@sbcglobal.net writes:
>
> << I carry a WM
> Ultralight and my wife has a Feathered Friends bag made with Event (like
> dryloft). When it gets frosty, the cover of my bag gets saturated; her's
> just gets some ice crystals formed on it. >>
>
> Ditto for my Feathered Friends bag
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:35:09 EST
> From: CMountainDave@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Failed Bag/Tent Combination
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <55.4e4e0a89.2d2b4ead@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Can't beat a good old campfire for getting things dry, unless of course it
is
> pouring rain. Gotta make time for one, though
> Over a foot of snow predicted where I live on Puget Sound tonight and
> tomorrow. They are hyping it up as One Of The Biggest Snowstorms Of All
Time in
> Puget Sound. We shall see. They've cried wolf before. If that happens and
we get
> a lot of heavy rain afterwards,(predicted) a lot of flat roofs might
> collapse, just like the storm of Dec. '96
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:36:48 -0800
> From: "ECPG" <ECPG@peoplepc.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: convinced-Goat Rocks
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <006401c3d3e4$f18475a0$2de14b43@user>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Packgoats can get through both Goat Rocks and glaciers but I sure wouldn't
> try it with a horse, even leading it.
> Carolyn Eddy
> Goattracks Magazine
> www.goattracksmagazine.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:39:22 EST
> From: RBALCORN@cs.com
> Subject: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <dd.b90535.2d2b4faa@cs.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I'm reading Blistered Kind of Love. They talk about stream crossings in
the
> Sierras chest high. This is early season - cold, snow melt water, etc.
They
> don't say how they dry off. My assumption is they are hiking in quick dry
> synthetics and walk till they are dry. For those of you that have done
it, how do
> you avoid hyperthermia? Do you take your boots off, etc? I hike this area
in
> summer, and take considerable effort to stay dry - boots off, switch to
> lightweight river shoes, but water never more than thigh high, so
wondering how you
> early season pct hikers do it?
>
> Ralph Alcorn
> www.backpack45.com
> Shepherd Canyon Books
> Publisher of We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips
from
> Seasoned Women Backpackers
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:16:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: Stephen Gookin <themtgoat@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20040106001649.41426.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> As far as the boots/shoes go......
>
> I have for years, just taken my boots/shoes off and crossed those streams,
though sometimes, if it is particularly difficult, I will take off just my
socks and cross in boots/shoes so I don't end up with wet socks.I have never
had to cross a stream above waist deep. But on the other hand I have never
done the Whole PCT. Snickers and I last summer did Kirsarge pass to red
meadows in 10 days, but the worste stream crossing we ran into was after
selden pass and it was about 2 feet deep. We did it on July 3rd. If were
doing the whole pct, then it would probably have been higher and we would
have been there 2 weeks ealier.
>
> It seems that a number of other hikers would probably argue that if it is
at all difficult you should wear boots/shoes, better to keep your life safe
and get shoes wet, then loose it all. Which is hard to argue with. In my
planning for PCt2005, I am planning on buying a pair of DIVA spider (at
REI). They will serve me for stream crossing and an alternative to my hiking
shoes on the pct. They are being sold as reef walking shoes for $35 I
believe.
>
> -The Mountain Goat-
>
> RBALCORN@cs.com wrote:
> I'm reading Blistered Kind of Love. They talk about stream crossings in
the
> Sierras chest high. This is early season - cold, snow melt water, etc.
They
> don't say how they dry off. My assumption is they are hiking in quick dry
> synthetics and walk till they are dry. For those of you that have done it,
how do
> you avoid hyperthermia? Do you take your boots off, etc? I hike this area
in
> summer, and take considerable effort to stay dry - boots off, switch to
> lightweight river shoes, but water never more than thigh high, so
wondering how you
> early season pct hikers do it?
>
> Ralph Alcorn
> www.backpack45.com
> Shepherd Canyon Books
> Publisher of We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips
from
> Seasoned Women Backpackers
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003From m.karon@comcast.net
Mon Jan 5 18:17:57 2004
> Return-Path: <m.karon@comcast.net>
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> Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:17:51 -0600 (CST)
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> Message-ID: <000401c3d3ea$65f021f0$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1F>
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
> To: <RBALCORN@cs.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> References: <dd.b90535.2d2b4faa@cs.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:16:57 -0800
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>
> Those were my concerns too. I really dreaded the high, cold water. Well,
it
> was not a problem in 2000! Two weeks earlier, maybe. Or maybe in another
> year.
>
> Here is the thing. It is normally really hot out. You are hiking in
shorts.
> The sun is blazing. And, your adrenalin is pumping. So, you have a rather
> quick, wet adventure. Or make that several quick adventures. Some folks
> change shoes (I did, but that takes time). Others just go in and let the
> shoes dry as you hike. Definitely do not go barefoot. You want some
> traction. Also, I found that a tennis shoe kept my feet warmer.
>
> Evolution is the only place where the stream may be chest deep - slow, but
> deep. We crossed where the trail went and had only waist deep or less.
>
> That is not to say you couldn't experience real problems when you go
> through - you might even fall. Yes, the streams are really fast - but, you
> can pick where you cross. Having a few others around reduces the fear - if
> you fall, there will be help. Sturdy poles help - hiking poles may do, but
> they really are not be strong enough for real swift streams.
>
> With luck, you won't experience many problems. So, don't worry about
> hypothermia. But, do watch what you are doing.
>
> P.S. If you are in Washington in Sept/October, watch out. That is where it
> could be dangerous if the streams are high.
>
> Marshall Karon
> Portland, OR
> m.karon@comcast.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:39 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
>
>
> > I'm reading Blistered Kind of Love. They talk about stream crossings in
> the
> > Sierras chest high. This is early season - cold, snow melt water, etc.
> They
> > don't say how they dry off. My assumption is they are hiking in quick
dry
> > synthetics and walk till they are dry. For those of you that have done
> it, how do
> > you avoid hyperthermia? Do you take your boots off, etc? I hike this
area
> in
> > summer, and take considerable effort to stay dry - boots off, switch to
> > lightweight river shoes, but water never more than thigh high, so
> wondering how you
> > early season pct hikers do it?
> >
> > Ralph Alcorn
> > www.backpack45.com
> > Shepherd Canyon Books
> > Publisher of We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips
> from
> > Seasoned Women Backpackers
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:18:33 -0800
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] adiabatic/katabatic air
> To: <CMountainDave@aol.com>, <pct-l@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <001101c3d3ea$9ee372a0$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1F>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Is that why Tuolumne Meadows always seems so cold?
>
> Marshall Karon
> Portland, OR
> m.karon@comcast.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CMountainDave@aol.com>
> To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] adiabatic/katabatic air
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 1/5/04 10:13:21 AM, Steven.Setzer@Colorado.EDU
writes:
> >
> > << This summer I spent a few days in the Colorodo mountains climing
14ers.
> I
> > camped in the same area every night and did day hikes from camp. Every
> > night my buddy slept down by a creek and I camped about 100 yard away
and
> > maybe 50 feet higher. In the morning, I'd wake up warm and dry. As I
> > walked downhill to wake my friend up, I'd feel the air get suddenly
> > colder. >>>
> > Oh how true this is! We were camped in the Olympics and the exact same
> thing
> > occurred: all the cold air sank and stayed along the creek bed. It was
> cold
> > and damp. You could see your breath and people were dressed warmly with
> hats on.
> > I climbed up a hill about 200 vertical feet to a clearing and it was
> sunny,
> > warm and dry. I stripped down to shorts and took a sun bath for a couple
> of
> > hours. When I went back to the main camp, everyone was still bundled up.
> They
> > thought I was nuts when I told them how much warmer it was just a few
> hundred
> > yards away uphill
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:34:05 EST
> From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
> Subject: [pct-l] PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <44.39d81667.2d2b5c7d@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> If you are asking will you be unable to hike the PCT if you don't go the
KO?
> Well, of course not. You'll find information on the internet. You'll run
> into people who will give you the information. You'll stumble across the
water
> caches. You'll do fine....But..... you'll miss a grand affair if you do
not
> show up. It's a chance to meet all the people you'll be passing and
passed by
> on the trail, etc. etc. I cannot recommend it highly enough. Some people
who
> hike out early, get a ride back to Morena for the KO. If you need a ride
back
> to some remote trailhead from the KO, I'll give you a ride myself...
unless
> ityou're in Oregon already, har har.
>
>
> No Way
> Ray E
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:43:07 EST
> From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
> Subject: [pct-l] Fording Creeks
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <f4.35aa2cf3.2d2b5e9b@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> When I sent my food package to Lone Pine, I included a pair of surfboard
> shoes. I bought them at Sports Authority or one of those big sports
places... $8.
> They have a mesh top and rubber bottoms that grip well. If you're
concerned
> about weight...they weigh too much, 110z for the pair. Until I no longer
> needed them ( Sonora Pass) they did extra duty as camp slippers.
>
>
> No Way
> Ray E
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:43:44 EST
> From: CMountainDave@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <1f1.16b2104d.2d2b5ec0@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/04 4:18:18 PM, themtgoat@yahoo.com writes:
>
> << I have for years, just taken my boots/shoes off and crossed those
streams,
> though sometimes, if it is particularly difficult, I will take off just my
> socks and cross in boots/shoes so I don't end up with wet socks. >>
>
> This is what I do, too. I find the leather doesn't soak up that much water
in
> the few minutes it takes to cross. Sandals work just as well, but tie
your
> boots to your pack. I don't like going barefoot -- too easy to slip and
fall, I
> think -- or get a cut. Don't hand carry your boots because if you slip,
you
> may let go to keep your balance and its bye bye boots. If it is waist
high, of
> course, your pants get wet, but supplex nylon dries really fast,
especially in
> the Sierra. The main thing is to keep your pack above water. I don't think
> I'd risk a crossing in chest high water, unless I absolutely had to. I
would
> travel up and down stream to find a log or log jam to cross first. I'd
probably
> camp as close as possible to the creek crossing and wait for morning when
the
> water is normally lower
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:51:00 -0800
> From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>, <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> Message-ID: <003b01c3d3ef$279f4660$6401a8c0@pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Here is a link to a few pictures in the high sierra taken early in 2000.
> http://home.pacbell.net/kdpo/pct/high_sierra.htm
> At the bottom of the page is my picture. I am wet up to my arm pits and
> crossing Evolution Creek (really a lake) for the 9th time. We tried to
cross
> the creek at the normal crossing. Semper Fi left a note saying the water
was
> to fast to cross there and to go back up the trail to the meadow. The note
> was 2 days old so I thought maybe the creek had gone down.
>
> I tried the creek with no pack. It was to swift and cold. The bottom of
the
> creek was washed out so it was just boulders. No way I could carry our
packs
> across there. We walked up stream along the banks. Nothing looked better,
so
> I crossed back and we went up stream.
>
> I crossed over and back 2 more times before finding slower and shallower
> water. Even then Marcia stepped into a hole that put her eye deep in the
> snow melt. As I crossed the creek for the last time with my backpack I
> thought I would like a picture of this. The camera was in the top of the
> backpack on top of my head. I had to dump the pack on the creek bed.
Marcia
> got the camera out and handed me the backpack again. I waded back into the
> creek and Marcia took the picture.
>
> After I finally got out, we put on our fleeces over our wet shirts, ate
what
> snacks that were handy, and started walking briskly to warm up. In a short
> time our shorts and shirts were dry.
>
> We had so many water crossings (what is a creek?) that we usually just
> plunged into them. Marcia was asking "Where are all the log crossing we
did
> last year on the John Muir Trail?" They were buried in the snow. We just
> wore our trail runners thru the water. Our feet were wet from all the snow
> and snowmelt anyway. As long as we kept walking our feet were fine. But if
> we stopped they got cold pretty quick.
>
> This is the only picture we have of the stream crossings. We had probably
> 6-8 other that were at least as scary. Usually the water was moving lots
> faster. And the mosquitoes were fierce. As we finished a crossing we would
> look down at probably 100 mosquitoes drawing blood from our arms. One
> memorable one is Bear Creek, a few hours south of Edison Lake. It was
really
> fast and scary.
>
> We learned not to cross the creeks late in the day. We crossed the
Tuolumne
> River just north of Donahue Pass just before dusk. We immediately set up
> camp and crawled into our sleeping bags to warm up. That didn't work as
well
> as hiking to warm up. We were cold for much longer even though we ate a
hot
> dinner.
>
> I have seen pictures from of other hikers who were a week or less behind
us.
> The authors of your book were just probably within a week behind us. The
> snow levels and water levels a week later were considerably less than what
> we had. You can see in the pictures the weather was quite warm. (SF had
> temps in the 90's that week.)
> Ken
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:39 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
>
>
> > I'm reading Blistered Kind of Love. They talk about stream crossings in
> the
> > Sierras chest high. This is early season - cold, snow melt water, etc.
> They
> > don't say how they dry off. My assumption is they are hiking in quick
dry
> > synthetics and walk till they are dry. For those of you that have done
> it, how do
> > you avoid hyperthermia? Do you take your boots off, etc? I hike this
area
> in
> > summer, and take considerable effort to stay dry - boots off, switch to
> > lightweight river shoes, but water never more than thigh high, so
> wondering how you
> > early season pct hikers do it?
> >
> > Ralph Alcorn
> > www.backpack45.com
> > Shepherd Canyon Books
> > Publisher of We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips
> from
> > Seasoned Women Backpackers
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:12:39 -0800
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>,
> <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> Message-ID: <002401c3d3f2$2da5e8e0$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1F>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> We probably saw that note in 2000. Said not to cross there (right where
the
> path was) - too deep.
>
> But, if you started at that point and waded just a bit upstream (like 10
> feet), it was easy and not deep. We laughed at the note and wondered who
> would ever attempt to go through the deepest part when a few feet away the
> water was obviously not as deep. However, we could have been a day or two
> later or earlier and at a different time of day. It was swift though and
we
> didn't really know what we doing - good thing, I think.
>
> Marshall Karon
> Portland, OR
> m.karon@comcast.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>; <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
>
>
> > Here is a link to a few pictures in the high sierra taken early in 2000.
> > http://home.pacbell.net/kdpo/pct/high_sierra.htm
> > At the bottom of the page is my picture. I am wet up to my arm pits and
> > crossing Evolution Creek (really a lake) for the 9th time. We tried to
> cross
> > the creek at the normal crossing. Semper Fi left a note saying the water
> was
> > to fast to cross there and to go back up the trail to the meadow. The
note
> > was 2 days old so I thought maybe the creek had gone down.
> >
> > I tried the creek with no pack. It was to swift and cold. The bottom of
> the
> > creek was washed out so it was just boulders. No way I could carry our
> packs
> > across there. We walked up stream along the banks. Nothing looked
better,
> so
> > I crossed back and we went up stream.
> >
> > I crossed over and back 2 more times before finding slower and shallower
> > water. Even then Marcia stepped into a hole that put her eye deep in the
> > snow melt. As I crossed the creek for the last time with my backpack I
> > thought I would like a picture of this. The camera was in the top of the
> > backpack on top of my head. I had to dump the pack on the creek bed.
> Marcia
> > got the camera out and handed me the backpack again. I waded back into
the
> > creek and Marcia took the picture.
> >
> > After I finally got out, we put on our fleeces over our wet shirts, ate
> what
> > snacks that were handy, and started walking briskly to warm up. In a
short
> > time our shorts and shirts were dry.
> >
> > We had so many water crossings (what is a creek?) that we usually just
> > plunged into them. Marcia was asking "Where are all the log crossing we
> did
> > last year on the John Muir Trail?" They were buried in the snow. We just
> > wore our trail runners thru the water. Our feet were wet from all the
snow
> > and snowmelt anyway. As long as we kept walking our feet were fine. But
if
> > we stopped they got cold pretty quick.
> >
> > This is the only picture we have of the stream crossings. We had
probably
> > 6-8 other that were at least as scary. Usually the water was moving lots
> > faster. And the mosquitoes were fierce. As we finished a crossing we
would
> > look down at probably 100 mosquitoes drawing blood from our arms. One
> > memorable one is Bear Creek, a few hours south of Edison Lake. It was
> really
> > fast and scary.
> >
> > We learned not to cross the creeks late in the day. We crossed the
> Tuolumne
> > River just north of Donahue Pass just before dusk. We immediately set up
> > camp and crawled into our sleeping bags to warm up. That didn't work as
> well
> > as hiking to warm up. We were cold for much longer even though we ate a
> hot
> > dinner.
> >
> > I have seen pictures from of other hikers who were a week or less behind
> us.
> > The authors of your book were just probably within a week behind us. The
> > snow levels and water levels a week later were considerably less than
what
> > we had. You can see in the pictures the weather was quite warm. (SF had
> > temps in the 90's that week.)
> > Ken
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> > To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:39 PM
> > Subject: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> >
> >
> > > I'm reading Blistered Kind of Love. They talk about stream crossings
in
> > the
> > > Sierras chest high. This is early season - cold, snow melt water,
etc.
> > They
> > > don't say how they dry off. My assumption is they are hiking in quick
> dry
> > > synthetics and walk till they are dry. For those of you that have
done
> > it, how do
> > > you avoid hyperthermia? Do you take your boots off, etc? I hike this
> area
> > in
> > > summer, and take considerable effort to stay dry - boots off, switch
to
> > > lightweight river shoes, but water never more than thigh high, so
> > wondering how you
> > > early season pct hikers do it?
> > >
> > > Ralph Alcorn
> > > www.backpack45.com
> > > Shepherd Canyon Books
> > > Publisher of We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips
> > from
> > > Seasoned Women Backpackers
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > pct-l mailing list
> > > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > > unsubscribe or change options:
> > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:16:32 -0800
> From: "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
> To: "Stephen Gookin" <themtgoat@yahoo.com>,
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <005501c3d3f2$b8dd40c0$7b9eb2d1@David>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The ADZPCTKO is really a lot of fun. I would strongly encourage anyone to
> go to at least a few hours of it, if not the whole thing. People will
tell
> you where there are available water drops, what the water situation is
along
> the trail, and trail conditions (remember the fires here burned over
several
> sections of trail). The trail near Combs peak in section B is already
badly
> eroded and we haven't had all that much rain yet). Also there are gear
> demonstrations, and it is a great way to find people of your ability to
hike
> with. Eric
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Gookin" <themtgoat@yahoo.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:33 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
>
>
> > I was planning on missing the ADZPCTKO in 2005, so I would also like to
> know.
> > Or is this something I should absolutly make time for.
> >
> > -The Mt Goat-
> >
> > Steve Setzer <Steven.Setzer@Colorado.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > I think I should re-phrase my question. Will I be missing important
> > information if I miss the ADZPCTKO? Or will I be able to figure all this
> > out with no problem as I go? Will the water info/trail conditions
> > be available on this list or will the ADZPCTKO be the only source for
> > this info?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:20:02 -0800
> From: "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
> To: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.org>, "'Stephen Gookin'"
> <themtgoat@yahoo.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <005f01c3d3f3$367fe190$7b9eb2d1@David>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I always post a trail report for Section B in the trail conditions section
> of the PCTA website. I post one for mid-april and again in mid-may. I go
> to the springs, creeks, etc. and check them out. Read the report and you
> will get the water conditions for at least section B. Hope this helps.
> Eric Yakel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.org>
> To: "'Stephen Gookin'" <themtgoat@yahoo.com>;
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 12:53 PM
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
>
>
> > Steve,
> > I cannot answer for the ADZPCTKO organizers, but in the past years the
> only
> > time you
> > can get the information on the water supplies etc. is from Meadow Ed at
> the
> > ADZPCTKO
> > Event, He has been checking it out on his way to Lake Morena.
> >
> > If you start sooner you take your chances on what stream is running etc
> and
> > where the stashes of water are located. However if you are only starting
a
> > couple of days early, find someone on the list who could pick you up and
> > bring you down to the Kickoff and then return
> > You back to where you came off the trail.
> >
> > In my opinion, not only water information, the Kickoff has become part
of
> > your experience in the PCT thru hike. One day my turn will come.
> > Cheers,
> > Marge [The Old Gal]
> > http://www.prothman.org/marge
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
> > [mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Stephen
Gookin
> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 12:33 PM
> > To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
> >
> >
> > I was planning on missing the ADZPCTKO in 2005, so I would also like to
> > know. Or is this something I should absolutly make time for.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:26:24 -0800
> From: "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: <RBALCORN@cs.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <007801c3d3f4$1a3a1180$7b9eb2d1@David>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The crossing of Evolution creek in Evolution Valley is the only spot I can
> think of that really is chest high. There are plenty of crossings thigh
> high or maybe waist high. I put on shorts and sandals and scream when the
> water gets to my xxxxx. Really not too bad. You put on your hiking
shoes
> or boots and dry out pretty fast. Tip: If you know you have a really bad
> crossing coming up, try to cross early in the morning when the run-off is
> usually at it's lowest point(often 6-12 inches lower). Eric Yakel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:39 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
>
>
> > I'm reading Blistered Kind of Love. They talk about stream crossings in
> the
> > Sierras chest high. This is early season - cold, snow melt water, etc.
> They
> > don't say how they dry off. My assumption is they are hiking in quick
dry
> > synthetics and walk till they are dry. For those of you that have done
> it, how do
> > you avoid hyperthermia? Do you take your boots off, etc? I hike this
area
> in
> > summer, and take considerable effort to stay dry - boots off, switch to
> > lightweight river shoes, but water never more than thigh high, so
> wondering how you
> > early season pct hikers do it?
> >
> > Ralph Alcorn
> > www.backpack45.com
> > Shepherd Canyon Books
> > Publisher of We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips
> from
> > Seasoned Women Backpackers
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:28:51 -0800
> From: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] ...PCT start date. missing the ADZPCTKO?
> To: <Bighummel@aol.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <003e01c3d3f4$71046420$1501010a@sd.cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I will have the water report website up sometime this month. Hikers won't
be
> able to post directly as I'm not a programmer. Instead, I will only update
> it from posts here on the PCT-L. It will only be as good as the reports
> posted here.
>
> I would encourage you to attend the ADZPCTKO. It's not just water info or
> WAG snow level predictions. It's meeting other hikers with similar
> interests, and especially past hikers with tips. As No Way said, if you
want
> to start earlier, just ask and someone can pick you up on the trail for a
> ride to the party. If you want to start later, just hang out on the beach
> for a few weeks.
>
> AsABat
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:36:43 -0800
> From: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <004801c3d3f5$8aaabf40$1501010a@sd.cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Evolution Creek is the notorious crossing, but depending on conditions
there
> could be others. 1998 was a very wet year, and at the end of July the
South
> Fork of the Kings River (Map H6) looked like rapids at the bottom of the
> Grand Canyon (except for the color). I couldn't imagine trying to cross
it.
> Fortunately, We were heading southbound, and knew not to cross the "infant
> South Fork" as the guidebook says, and instead followed the edge of the
> meadow 2.2 miles to the problem crossing.
>
> AsABat
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:43:28 -0800
> From: "Judson Brown" <judsonb@internetcds.com>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: <CMountainDave@aol.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000901c3d3f6$7c7f02e0$1956f142@pounder>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> << Sandals work just as well>>
>
> But DON'T, fer God's sake, use sandals that fasten w/ velcro, i.e.,
> old-school Tevas. I was once crossing Eagle Creek- 3 or 4 miles upstream
of
> Tunnel Falls- solo. Waist deep, swift, and freakin' cold water. About 1/2
> way across, one of my Tevas attempted to liberate itself, leaving me to
try
> to thwart its escape while balancing on one leg w/ my chin in the water.
> Probably the stupidest thing I've ever done.
>
> Judson
> Ashland
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:51:05 -0800
> From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> To: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>,
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>, <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> Message-ID: <006601c3d3f7$8c6c5a80$6401a8c0@pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I tried the crossing about 10-15 up the creek. It was still way to wild
for
> me. I had trouble just standing in the water. It was nearly impossible to
> walk. There was no chance I could carry a pack. I think you were several
> days behind us at that point. It had probably started to subside.
> Ken
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
> To: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>; <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>;
> <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 5:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
>
>
> > We probably saw that note in 2000. Said not to cross there (right where
> the
> > path was) - too deep.
> >
> > But, if you started at that point and waded just a bit upstream (like 10
> > feet), it was easy and not deep. We laughed at the note and wondered who
> > would ever attempt to go through the deepest part when a few feet away
the
> > water was obviously not as deep. However, we could have been a day or
two
> > later or earlier and at a different time of day. It was swift though and
> we
> > didn't really know what we doing - good thing, I think.
> >
> > Marshall Karon
> > Portland, OR
> > m.karon@comcast.net
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>
> > To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>; <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 4:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> >
> >
> > > Here is a link to a few pictures in the high sierra taken early in
2000.
> > > http://home.pacbell.net/kdpo/pct/high_sierra.htm
> > > At the bottom of the page is my picture. I am wet up to my arm pits
and
> > > crossing Evolution Creek (really a lake) for the 9th time. We tried to
> > cross
> > > the creek at the normal crossing. Semper Fi left a note saying the
water
> > was
> > > to fast to cross there and to go back up the trail to the meadow. The
> note
> > > was 2 days old so I thought maybe the creek had gone down.
> > >
> > > I tried the creek with no pack. It was to swift and cold. The bottom
of
> > the
> > > creek was washed out so it was just boulders. No way I could carry our
> > packs
> > > across there. We walked up stream along the banks. Nothing looked
> better,
> > so
> > > I crossed back and we went up stream.
> > >
> > > I crossed over and back 2 more times before finding slower and
shallower
> > > water. Even then Marcia stepped into a hole that put her eye deep in
the
> > > snow melt. As I crossed the creek for the last time with my backpack I
> > > thought I would like a picture of this. The camera was in the top of
the
> > > backpack on top of my head. I had to dump the pack on the creek bed.
> > Marcia
> > > got the camera out and handed me the backpack again. I waded back into
> the
> > > creek and Marcia took the picture.
> > >
> > > After I finally got out, we put on our fleeces over our wet shirts,
ate
> > what
> > > snacks that were handy, and started walking briskly to warm up. In a
> short
> > > time our shorts and shirts were dry.
> > >
> > > We had so many water crossings (what is a creek?) that we usually just
> > > plunged into them. Marcia was asking "Where are all the log crossing
we
> > did
> > > last year on the John Muir Trail?" They were buried in the snow. We
just
> > > wore our trail runners thru the water. Our feet were wet from all the
> snow
> > > and snowmelt anyway. As long as we kept walking our feet were fine.
But
> if
> > > we stopped they got cold pretty quick.
> > >
> > > This is the only picture we have of the stream crossings. We had
> probably
> > > 6-8 other that were at least as scary. Usually the water was moving
lots
> > > faster. And the mosquitoes were fierce. As we finished a crossing we
> would
> > > look down at probably 100 mosquitoes drawing blood from our arms. One
> > > memorable one is Bear Creek, a few hours south of Edison Lake. It was
> > really
> > > fast and scary.
> > >
> > > We learned not to cross the creeks late in the day. We crossed the
> > Tuolumne
> > > River just north of Donahue Pass just before dusk. We immediately set
up
> > > camp and crawled into our sleeping bags to warm up. That didn't work
as
> > well
> > > as hiking to warm up. We were cold for much longer even though we ate
a
> > hot
> > > dinner.
> > >
> > > I have seen pictures from of other hikers who were a week or less
behind
> > us.
> > > The authors of your book were just probably within a week behind us.
The
> > > snow levels and water levels a week later were considerably less than
> what
> > > we had. You can see in the pictures the weather was quite warm. (SF
had
> > > temps in the 90's that week.)
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <RBALCORN@cs.com>
> > > To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 3:39 PM
> > > Subject: [pct-l] Early Season Fording Techniques?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm reading Blistered Kind of Love. They talk about stream
crossings
> in
> > > the
> > > > Sierras chest high. This is early season - cold, snow melt water,
> etc.
> > > They
> > > > don't say how they dry off. My assumption is they are hiking in
quick
> > dry
> > > > synthetics and walk till they are dry. For those of you that have
> done
> > > it, how do
> > > > you avoid hyperthermia? Do you take your boots off, etc? I hike
this
> > area
> > > in
> > > > summer, and take considerable effort to stay dry - boots off, switch
> to
> > > > lightweight river shoes, but water never more than thigh high, so
> > > wondering how you
> > > > early season pct hikers do it?
> > > >
> > > > Ralph Alcorn
> > > > www.backpack45.com
> > > > Shepherd Canyon Books
> > > > Publisher of We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and
Tips
> > > from
> > > > Seasoned Women Backpackers
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > pct-l mailing list
> > > > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > > > unsubscribe or change options:
> > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > pct-l mailing list
> > > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > > unsubscribe or change options:
> > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:01:11 -0800
> From: Kevin Corcoran <kevin@antelecom.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] adiabatic/katabatic air
> To: pct-l@backcountry.net
> Cc: CMountainDave@aol.com
> Message-ID: <a05210601bc1fcf938fb9@[66.102.200.83]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> >In a message dated 1/5/04 10:13:21 AM, Steven.Setzer@Colorado.EDU writes:
> >
> ><< This summer I spent a few days in the Colorodo mountains climing
14ers. I
> >camped in the same area every night and did day hikes from camp. Every
> >night my buddy slept down by a creek and I camped about 100 yard away and
> >maybe 50 feet higher. In the morning, I'd wake up warm and dry. As I
> >walked downhill to wake my friend up, I'd feel the air get suddenly
> >colder. >>>
>
> then CMountainDave wrote:
>
> >Oh how true this is! We were camped in the Olympics and the exact same
thing
> >occurred: all the cold air sank and stayed along the creek bed. It was
cold
> >and damp. You could see your breath and people were dressed warmly
> >with hats on.
> >I climbed up a hill about 200 vertical feet to a clearing and it was
sunny,
> >warm and dry. I stripped down to shorts and took a sun bath for a couple
of
> >hours. When I went back to the main camp, everyone was still bundled up.
They
> >thought I was nuts when I told them how much warmer it was just a few
hundred
> >yards away uphill
>
> Getting a much later start than my companions, I caught up to
> them at Monache Mdws at near darkness. I knew better than to join
> them bedded down in the meadow, but I joined them because it was dark
> and I was tired. Laying on top of my groundcloth on the gentle slope
> between the meadow's center and the surrounding higher ground, I
> could feel the slow settling of the cooler air. With my head upslope
> of my feet, all night long I had a tough time sleeping with this cold
> draft wanting to displace the warm air out of my bag. I awoke in a
> frost-covered sleeping bag.
> (Gunnison CO is frequently listed as the nation's cold spot
> for this exact reason. I'd imagine Gunnison gets pretty wide
> temperature swings between dawn and midday.)
> I like overnighting on the Mt Baden-Powell summit at least
> once each summer, and conversely I've found that at sunset it cools
> down rapidly, becoming quite cool. Yet, I always awake around 1 to
> 2am sweating, it's so warm out. I imagine that at sunset the higher
> cooler air traps the lower hot desert air in an inversion, but as the
> night progresses the warm ground air, compressed from above, gets
> displaced and updrafts against the mountain slopes. Does anyone know
> if my assumption on this is correct?
>
> Kevin Corcoran
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:00:06 -0800
> From: Ken Marlow <kenmarlow@earthlink.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Camp Shoes
> To: Pacific Crest Trail List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <BC1F64B6.2CB7%kenmarlow@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Sorry, this may have beaten around before, but I just got back on the list
> after a 5 year hiatus. One person mentioned using REI reef walkers (Teva
> Protons?). Anyone found that these or something similar make light camp
> shoes?
>
> I'm trying to keep the pack weight down but I'm not at the point of
wearing
> trail runners as a hiking boots(bad ankles) - currently using Montrail
> Torres, as I'm taking a middle-of-the-road approach to ultralight hiking:
> Gregory Z, WM Ultralight, Wanderlust 2-4-2 (I hike with my wife), MSR
> Simmerlite, etc.
>
> Nike (I think) used to make some camp shoes that bundled flat and were
> light, but no where to be found. I'm using old Frostline down booties with
> waterproof overbooties. Any other suggestions w' associated weights?
> Anyone compared weight and comfort of running racing flats to reef
walkers?
>
> Ken Marlow
> Class of '82
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:10:08 -0800
> From: Ken Marlow <kenmarlow@earthlink.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Kelty Triptease, don't do it?
> To: Pacific Crest Trail List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <BC1F6710.2CBB%kenmarlow@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Just love the Kelty Triptease cordage, but was preparing to sew some
> lightweight stuff sacks, incorporating this line for the drawcord. Anyone
> found its too abrasive for lighter fabrics, or makes closing a stuff sack
> more difficult than usual?
>
> -Ken M.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:15:55 -0800
> From: "Eric Lee (GAMES)" <elee@microsoft.com>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Kelty Triptease, don't do it?
> To: "Ken Marlow" <kenmarlow@earthlink.net>, "Pacific Crest Trail List"
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>
<EB0A327048144442AFB15FCE18DC96C701A6FB63@RED-MSG-31.redmond.corp.microsoft.
com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Ken wrote:
> >
> Just love the Kelty Triptease cordage, but was preparing to sew some
> lightweight stuff sacks, incorporating this line for the drawcord.
> Anyone
> found its too abrasive for lighter fabrics, or makes closing a stuff
> sack
> more difficult than usual?
> >
>
> Works great for me in stuff sacks. The only thing I don't recommend
> Triptease for is bear bagging - it'll cut up the bark on branches like a
> saw. But that's a much different situation than a stuff sack.
>
> Eric
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/options/pct-l
>
>
>
> End of pct-l Digest, Vol 9, Issue 4
> ***********************************