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[pct-l] An oldie but a goodie
- Subject: [pct-l] An oldie but a goodie
- From: scottie.wujcik at hp.com (WUJCIK,SCOTTIE (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
- Date: Mon Jan 5 08:13:20 2004
Randy, I love you, you da MAN!!!!!!!!
3lungs.
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of
pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 7:24 PM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 9, Issue 1
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Today's Topics:
1. an oldie but a goodie (Randy Forsland)
2. bears (John Randall)
3. Re: Re:bears & food now jardine flame (CMountainDave@aol.com)
4. More on the Criollo horse (CMountainDave@aol.com)
5. Re: bears (Slyatpct@aol.com)
6. RE: bears & food (Edmond Meinfelder)
7. Re: bears & food now jardine flame (DAVCATDAV@aol.com)
8. Gear Test (Eric Yakel)
9. bears (Eric Yakel)
10. bear cannisters again (Eric Yakel)
11. RE: bear canisters again (JD Schaefer)
12. Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (Ron Martino)
13. To Bear or Not To Bear (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
14. Re: To Bear or Not To Bear (Bob Bankhead)
15. Re: To Bear or Not To Bear (CMountainDave@aol.com)
16. To Bear or Not To Bear (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
17. Re: To Bear or Not To Bear (CMountainDave@aol.com)
18. Re: an oldie but a goodie (dude)
19. Bear, bare (Lonetrail@aol.com)
20. Re: bears (Karen Borski)
21. Fwd: [pct-l] bears & food (Ddd51@aol.com)
22. umbrellas revisited (CMountainDave@aol.com)
23. Re: bears & food (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
24. Re: bears (christin pruett)
25. Re: bears (Slyatpct@aol.com)
26. New to list (Kent Ryhorchuk)
27. Bear Again (Lonetrail@aol.com)
28. Re: Bear Again (CMountainDave@aol.com)
29. RE: bears & food (Carl (1977 Kelty Kid))
30. Re: bears & food (Steve Courtway)
31. RE: bears & food (Carl (1977 Kelty Kid))
32. Re: bears & food (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
33. Re: bears & food (CMountainDave@aol.com)
34. RE: bears & food (Carl (1977 Kelty Kid))
35. Re: bears & food (CMountainDave@aol.com)
36. newbe to list (Stephen Gookin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:01:22 -0800
From: "Randy Forsland" <randy_forsland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] an oldie but a goodie
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <Law10-OE15UKiadaF2a0001bebc@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
All of these bear can rehashing and posting purity discussions made me
think of this old forum humor piece..
*************************************************
How many forum members does it take to change a light bulb?
1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed.
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light
bulb could have been changed differently.
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
1 to move it to the Lighting section.
2 to argue then move it to the Electrical section.
7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs.
5 to flame the spell checkers.
3 to correct spelling/grammar flames.
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to
condemn those 6 as stupid.
2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp".
15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb"
is perfectly correct.
19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this
discussion to a lightbulb forum.
11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs
and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum.
10 to argue whether you should counter balance your lightbulbs or sleep
with them.
1 throw a hissy fit and vow that he won't rest until all light bulbs are
stored properly in bear cans.
36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy
the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique
and what brands are faulty.
7 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs.
4 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected
URL's.
5 to post photos of lightbulbs that they have changed.
13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all
headers and signatures, and add "Me too".
5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot
handle the light bulb controversy.
4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?".
13 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about
light bulbs".
1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start
it all over again!
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:27:49 -0800 (PST)
From: John Randall <sierra_marmot@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] bears
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040101042749.60149.qmail@web20508.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You'll hike the entire PCT and not see one bear. In
fact, you won't see a trace of one bear. Don't sweat
it.
marmot
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 00:50:39 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re:bears & food now jardine flame
To: PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <6c.361b99f0.2d250f2f@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 12/31/03 11:37:32 AM, jeffbohannon@hotmail.com writes:
<< And (watch out
>Jordanaire's >>
Wasn't that the back up group for Elvis Presley?
Let's keep it PCT related. I heard a rumor that Elvis is now a 3 time
triple crowner. He hated being overweight, drugged and cooped up in
Nashville, a
prisoner of his own fame, so he faked his own death bought a Rolls Royce
Motor
Home and now slackpacks the National Scenic Trails with the help of the
Jordanaires.
So I think the poster meant watch out FOR the Jordanaires on the backroads
of the PCT. If you're lucky they'll invite you in for a microbrew and a jam
session
Elvis impersonates himself in Vegas during the off season, not that it has
anything to do with the PCT. Just a sort of interesting side note.
Next up: Bigfoot and D. B. Cooper sightings on the PCT and the need for
Bigfoot canisters. Mr. Bigfoot also debates the issue of boots vs. running
shoes
and gives his recommendations. Mr. Cooper discusses how to avoid fines from
nosy backcountry rangers
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 01:10:13 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] More on the Criollo horse
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <103.3c6de3b2.2d2513c5@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Probably presumptuous of me, but here's a web site about the Criollo horse
for all you horse lovers out there.
http://www.conquistador.com/criollo.html.
Here's a quote: It is a horse made for the great outdoors, ideal for long
voyages or trail rides, trekking or western riding. Extremely easy-handling,
its
training as a cattle worker or even war horse seem a part of the
not-so-distant
past.?
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 01:48:57 EST
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears
To: sierra_marmot@yahoo.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <104.3cc4b81d.2d251cd9@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 12/31/2003 11:28:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sierra_marmot@yahoo.com writes:
> You'll hike the entire PCT and not see one bear. In
> fact, you won't see a trace of one bear. Don't sweat
> it.
>
Although incredibly scenic, viewing wildlife is one on my main reason for
hiking, and unless you count lizards and marmots (lol) the PCT offered the
least
amount of wildlife of the Triple Crown, atleast when I passed, while the CDT
had by far the most.
Literally 1000's of elk, plus deer, black bear, griz, moose, antelope, wild
horses, mountain lion, rattle snake, javelina, mountain goat, mountain sheep
(ram?), marmot, pika, bald and golden eagle, cranes, etc. It seemed
everyday it
was something new.
It's well worth the effort and a good choice after hiking the PCT.
YMMV,
Sly
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 00:00:35 -0700
From: Edmond Meinfelder <edmond@mydogmeg.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food
To: "Steve Jackson" <sjackson@stratmarkgroup.com>,
<pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031231233835.017d7860@mail.mydogmeg.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 11:54 AM 12/31/2003 -0600, Steve Jackson wrote:
>All this talk of bears has me a little scared. I'm a big wimp when it
>comes to huge animals capable and willing to smash little humans under
>the right circumstances. I've done some hiking in bear country and
>have never seen one. How likely is it that one would encounter a bear
>on the PCT, any real statistics?
You likely see a black bear. But fearing an encounter with a black bear is
like being afraid of falling. It's not the fall that'll get you, but the
landing.
Stephen Herrero's book has some numbers. It's not unheard of to have a year
go by with no black bear attacks. The same is not true of dog attacks or
lightning strikes. Additionally, in the U.S. not an hour goes by without a
fatal car accident.
At 08:27 PM 12/31/2003 -0800, John Randall wrote:
>You'll hike the entire PCT and not see one bear. In
>fact, you won't see a trace of one bear. Don't sweat
>it.
Before I left for my PCT hike in '02 an '01 hiker told me, "What would you
say if I said 'I guarantee you'll see a brown bear on the trail in
California?'" I said I thought he was confusing black bear with brown, but
he was right, I saw a brown bear in California.
Tangent
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 02:57:09 EST
From: DAVCATDAV@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] Re: bears & food now jardine flame
To: PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <18f.2405b797.2d252cd5@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Whoops...I can't believe I have confused lightweight hiking fans with the
1997 Chicago Bulls again...
>Davcatdav wrote: ...
>situation that occurs only rarely in any event.?? And (watch out
>Jordanaire's
>I'm about to curse in your church) it is only...only..3 pounds.
>I believe the correct term is Jardinite's. Unless your referring to the
>French Foriegn Jardini??res an equally fundamentalist group albeit with
>differrent goals (nothing american in their gear). ;-))
_________________________________________________________________
Have fun customizing MSN Messenger ?EUR" learn how here!??
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 07:14:40 -0800
From: "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Gear Test
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <002501c3d079$ff435990$c5aab2d1@David>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm with Mountain Dave on this one. As long as the gear isn't sold on our
list and exploited in some way, I would be pleased to hear about new gear.
I went to the link and read some of the write ups on gear that I presently
own. I felt it was quite accurate and well written. I do agree I can get
the info just by going to the link, but hearing about an especially good
product would be fine with me. Eric
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 07:22:03 -0800
From: "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net>
Subject: [pct-l] bears
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <004301c3d07b$05c1af00$c5aab2d1@David>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hey As a Bat:
Your crazier than me. My story is I was camping near Vermilion Resort
in the Sierras. I heard the screams of four boy scouts camping about 100
yards away. The black bear ate all their food as they cried. I finally got
pissed off and took my pepper spray and walked to the bear. He barked at me
(not a good sign), and I sprayed him in the face with the pepper spray. He
couldn't see and he ran in circles for a minute and then ran off running
into every other tree he came too. I was a boy scout saviour and the bear
was named the pin ball wizard. Eric
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 07:26:52 -0800
From: "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net>
Subject: [pct-l] bear cannisters again
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <005201c3d07b$af60d720$c5aab2d1@David>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jon:
The bearikade large cannister only weighs 31 oz. It really does hold
6-7 days of food. I'm a healthy eater and it carried everything I needed
for a week in the Sierras las summer. Give it a try. It's titanium and
stronger than anything out there. A little pricey though. I read an
article that told of testing it with grizzlies. It apparently stood up to 9
out of 10 grizzlies tested. The last one, "terminator grizzly", broke it
open after two hours of work. Eric
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 07:37:49 -0800
From: "JD Schaefer" <jdrows@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bear canisters again
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <ONEJICNPPJPFDCKHMCOPKEAGCPAA.jdrows@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
For Trail purity, starting from Happy Isles was more satisfying for me.
Yes, hiking to Sunrise (or less) in one day is a bit tough, but you know the
worst is over if you don't hike any longer distance days. You also spend
your first night (Yosemite) at several 1000 feet lower elevation &
acclimatization is easier.
While the pie at VVR is not bad (fresh caught fish meals are better), I and
others resupply at Muir Trail Ranch. It is more expensive, but it reduces
the distance without re-supplying to Whitney. From MTR, I carried 9-days of
food in my Bearikade Weekender & therefore didn't need to go off trail or
carry the extra weight of an Expedition. Hint: Buy Enertia foods & remove
all non-essential packaging (i.e. rehydrate in your .85 liter pot)
Reading the books and watching videos are nice in terms of building
anticipation, but they are not in the least essential. The Tom Harrison
maps (as Ralph says) are pretty good (a slight majority of the time their
mileages agree with the Trail junction signs) and are all you need for
maintaining confidence if solo or in a small group.
My best suggestion is once on the Trail, to get a sense as quickly as
possible for your speed. Look at a distance on the map or Trail sign, and
figure out approximately when you should get to the next junction or
whatever. Start anticipating that arrival and if more than 1/2 hour late
and it required making a left, right, whatever. . . stop and think. Did you
take breaks that extended your time, was there a particularly steep section
that slowed you down a lot? Did you cross that creek yet the map shows?
Have you hiked past those sheer cliffs the maps show? Perhaps a modestly
lesser suggestion would be to learn to recognize topo features that your map
shows when you actually can see them. Confidence and maintenance of same is
half the battle.
Best wishes,
JD Schaefer
JMT 2003
PS My Weekender weighs 2 oz. more than the website claim
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net]On Behalf Of Eric Yakel
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 7:27 AM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] bear cannisters again
Jon:
The bearikade large cannister only weighs 31 oz. It really does hold
6-7 days of food. I'm a healthy eater and it carried everything I needed
for a week in the Sierras las summer. Give it a try. It's titanium and
stronger than anything out there. A little pricey though. I read an
article that told of testing it with grizzlies. It apparently stood up to 9
out of 10 grizzlies tested. The last one, "terminator grizzly", broke it
open after two hours of work. Eric
_______________________________________________
pct-l mailing list
pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
unsubscribe or change options:
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:30:37 -0700
From: Ron Martino <yumitori@montana.com>
Subject: Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <3FF44B2D.6070809@montana.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>It has nothing to do with the PCT.
>
>The original poster asked in all the lists on the server if he could post
>his monthly posting. I'm sure he is also going to post it in
>rec.backcountry, alt.rec.hiking and otherwise. I don't know why he is
>pushing so hard, but I don't like it.
>
>Ilja.
>
>
'Pushing hard'? He asked once, unless I'm missing something.
As for 'It has nothing to do with the PCT', Andrew's posts will at
least potentially be of interest to folks looking for new gear. Heard
about the new bear canisters just coming onto the market? BGT has been
asked to test them. Want to know if your umbrella will stand up to trail
use? BGT tested Birdiepals awhile back. Trying to decide between various
possibilities for raingear? BGT continues to get new jackets and parkas
to check out, often before your local store does. And so it goes.
This isn't a commercial site, folks. This is a nonprofit group of
hikers who are able to do what many of you would like to - test the new
stuff that's out there to its limits to see if the manufacturer's hype
is correct, or just marketing.
Brick has said it's okay. But if you feel that strongly that he's
wrong in having done so, you might write him directly, since this debate
'has nothing to do with the PCT'.
Ron
--
It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression that will
determine our fate. There must be no limit on the range of temperate
discussion, no limits on thought. No subject must be taboo. No censor must
preside at our assemblies.
William O. Douglas
yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 11:35:13 EST
From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] To Bear or Not To Bear
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <ac.4e4e176a.2d25a641@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
If you hike the trail you can either carry a can, or not. If you don't,
and
see ranger, you will either get a fine or not. If you don't get a fine, the
point is moot. If you get a fine, then carrying one would have saved you
money. You will either see a bear, or not. If you carry a can and don't
see a
bear, then it will have been a waste of time and energy and money. If you
see a
ranger and not a bear, then it will only have been a waste of time and
energy, not money. If you see a bear, it will either be attempting to get
your
food, or not. If it is not ( like, say you see it at 8AM while you're
hiking)
then it will have been a waste of time and energy and money. If it is (
like,
say at night while you're sleeping) then it will have been a savings of
time
and energy and money.
It's a simple calculus. Carry a can,or not. If you carry it, stop bitching
about the inconvenience and weight and cost. Your piece of mind (hopefully)
will be worth it. If you don't carry it and get fined, stop bitching about
bureauracy and The Man. If you don't carry it and lose your food, don't
bitch
about the bears, hike out and get some more. You won't starve in the one or
two
days it takes to reach civilization
Democracy... it's a beautiful thing. :C)
No Way
Ray E
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:50:42 -0800
From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] To Bear or Not To Bear
To: "PCT List Forum" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>,
<StoneDancer1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001301c3d087$64c43b10$6401a8c0@BOB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ray-
You certainly have a talent for putting things into perspective.
Well done.
Wandering Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <StoneDancer1@aol.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 8:35 AM
Subject: [pct-l] To Bear or Not To Bear
> If you hike the trail you can either carry a can, or not. If you don't,
and
> see ranger, you will either get a fine or not. If you don't get a fine,
the
> point is moot. If you get a fine, then carrying one would have saved you
> money. You will either see a bear, or not. If you carry a can and don't
see a
> bear, then it will have been a waste of time and energy and money. If you
see a
> ranger and not a bear, then it will only have been a waste of time and
> energy, not money. If you see a bear, it will either be attempting to get
your
> food, or not. If it is not ( like, say you see it at 8AM while you're
hiking)
> then it will have been a waste of time and energy and money. If it is (
like,
> say at night while you're sleeping) then it will have been a savings of
time
> and energy and money.
>
> It's a simple calculus. Carry a can,or not. If you carry it, stop
bitching
> about the inconvenience and weight and cost. Your piece of mind
(hopefully)
> will be worth it. If you don't carry it and get fined, stop bitching
about
> bureauracy and The Man. If you don't carry it and lose your food, don't
bitch
> about the bears, hike out and get some more. You won't starve in the one
or two
> days it takes to reach civilization
>
> Democracy... it's a beautiful thing. :C)
>
>
> No Way
> Ray E
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 12:49:48 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] To Bear or Not To Bear
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <129.388432ab.2d25b7bc@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/1/04 8:36:02 AM, StoneDancer1@aol.com writes:
<< If you hike the trail you can either carry a can, or not. If you don't,
and
see ranger, you will either get a fine or not. If you don't get a fine, the
point is moot. If you get a fine, then carrying one would have saved you
money. You will either see a bear, or not. If you carry a can and don't
see a
bear, then it will have been a waste of time and energy and money. If you
see a
ranger and not a bear, then it will only have been a waste of time and
energy, not money. If you see a bear, it will either be attempting to get
your
food, or not. If it is not ( like, say you see it at 8AM while you're
hiking)
then it will have been a waste of time and energy and money. If it is (
like,
say at night while you're sleeping) then it will have been a savings of
time
and energy and money. >>
So if I like to take risks that's my business. All the above can be said
about the odds of dying while climbing Mt Everest, or any mountain for that
matter. If you slip you will die, If you don't the point is moot. If you get
lost,
life will be miserable. If you don't the point is moot and on and on. Using
your logic, there would be no mountain climbing or thru hikes for that
matter.
People would simply rationalize their way out of risk. I see your argument
as
simply a rationalization for bear cans, not only where bears are a problem,
but
everywhere where running into a bear is a possibility, because one never
knows! The only really valid point is that I could get a fine, since I and
many
hundreds of other "scofflaw" PCT hikers did just fine without one in the
past.
So the moral of the story is to question authority at your own risk and
take risks at your own risk. So you do it your way and I'll do it mine.
HYOH!! Or
you could just stay home because too many bad things could happen at home or
on the trail
DANG, I wasn't going to comment on cans again but I just hate faulty
logic
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 14:00:40 EST
From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] To Bear or Not To Bear
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <1eb.1680c08f.2d25c858@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/1/2004 9:50:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
CMountainDave@aol.com writes:
>>>>>I see your argument as simply a rationalization for bear cans, not only
where bears are a problem, but everywhere>>>
Maybe you read something I didn't mean. My personal feelings about bear
cans
are that they are a pain in the ass. Nor did I carry one on the PCT this
year. And I didn't see a bear or a ranger. My only "argument" was: Carry
or
Not, Do What You Want, Accept the Consequences of Your Choice, Don't Bitch.
I
don't argue for or against carrying bear cans, only choice.
It's a free world. If one chooses to be a scofflaw, that's their personal
choice and they have every right to do so. However, they must also be
willing
to bear ( no pun intended) the consequences of that decision. The same for
climbing Mt. Everest. Unfortunately, all too many people want the choice
without
the consequence, hence, the rationalization. And...I apologize, for no
offence
is meant, but your reply makes no sense to me at all.
No Way
Ray E
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 14:06:27 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] To Bear or Not To Bear
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <1c9.13aff4e1.2d25c9b3@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I agree. I was putting words in your mouth that I should not have. I should
have read your post more carefully. My apologies
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 14:08:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "dude" <dude@fastmail.ca>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] an oldie but a goodie
To: randy_forsland@hotmail.com
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <3FF47025.0001DD.89095@ns.interchange.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
hahaha. very cute. but you forgot the posters who would respond
that you shouldn't use regular light bulbs because they are harmful
to the environment. :-)
> All of these bear can rehashing and posting purity discussions
> made me think of this old forum humor piece..
>
> *************************************************
>
> How many forum members does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has
> been changed.
>
> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how
> the light bulb could have been changed differently.
>
> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
>
> 1 to move it to the Lighting section.
>
> 2 to argue then move it to the Electrical section.
>
> 7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing
> light bulbs.
>
> 5 to flame the spell checkers.
>
> 3 to correct spelling/grammar flames.
>
> 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ...
> another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid.
>
> 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term
> is "lamp".
>
> 15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that
> "light bulb" is perfectly correct.
>
> 19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please
> take this discussion to a lightbulb forum.
>
> 11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use
> light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum.
>
> 10 to argue whether you should counter balance your lightbulbs or
> sleep with them.
>
> 1 throw a hissy fit and vow that he won't rest until all light
> bulbs are stored properly in bear cans.
>
> 36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior,
> where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work
> best for this technique and what brands are faulty.
>
> 7 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light
> bulbs.
>
> 4 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the
> corrected URL's.
>
> 5 to post photos of lightbulbs that they have changed.
>
> 13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety
> including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too".
>
> 5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they
> cannot handle the light bulb controversy.
>
> 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?".
>
> 13 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting
> questions about light bulbs".
>
> 1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now
> and start it all over again!
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
_________________________________________________________________
http://fastmail.ca/ - Fast Secure Web Email for Canadians
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 14:25:34 EST
From: Lonetrail@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] Bear, bare
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <180.244b01b6.2d25ce2e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Mary Had a little lamb and a little bear. I often saw her little lamb but I
never seem her bare.
lonetrail
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 13:09:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Karen Borski <kborski@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Re: bears
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040101210917.32926.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
This bit of advice was posted in a larger context, but
it should not be followed under ANY circumstances:
"So, give them your food if you must."
Do NOT EVER give a bear your food. There is no reason
for you to give your food to a bear. They may take
it, because your food was not properly stored. But do
not get scared and throw food at a bear, as this is
not going to help the situation.
It could not only hurt you, but it WILL harm the bear
in the long-term.
If a bear DOES get your food, do not ever try to take
it back.
I'm not going to go into a detailed bear discussion
again, but I would like to point out that if you are
interested in bear behavior and what to do if you
should meet one in the woods, PLEASE do yourself and
the bears a favor and read a bit from EXPERTS who can
tell you the facts and give real advice. As many
miles of hiking as are represented here on the list, I
really would not recommend taking seriously any advice
on how to behave around a bear unless you know the
credentials of those providing the advice. We all
have our opinions and stories. I have read EVERY bear
book ever written and met many wild bears on the
AT/PCT/CDT, but I still recommend that people find out
the facts from the source. These are highly
intelligent, emotional and complicated animals, and
their behavior is not simple.
I recommend these in this order:
Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance. Stephen
Herrero (great book, tons of advice and real stories,
geared towards bear-human interaction, both black and
brown bears discussed)
Walking with Bears. Terry DeBruyn. (black bear
behavior, man who followed wild bear family for years
in MN woods)
Mark of the Grizzly. Scott McMillion. (brown bear
behavior, journalistic style that's easy to read,
lessons learned for those in Grizzly country)
Among the Bears. Benjamin Kilham. (black bear
behavior, man who raised orphan cubs to adulthood in
woods of NH)
By the way, I can now say:
"I am hiking the PCT THIS year!"
YES!
Nocona
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 00:45:04 EST
From: Ddd51@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <1f0.16a3c318.2d265f60@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 12/31/2003 9:57:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sjackson@stratmarkgroup.com writes:
> All this talk of bears has me a little scared. I'm a big wimp when it
> comes to huge animals capable and willing to smash little humans under
> the right circumstances. I've done some hiking in bear country and have
> never seen one. How likely is it that one would encounter a bear on the
> PCT, any real statistics?
>
>
I've hiked the PCT from Devil's Post Pile to Donner, the JMT and several
other places in the northern Sierra, and from my perspective, the only place
you
are likely to see a bear is at the back country camps in Yosemite. These are
the backpacking equivilant of a KOA, and attract a lot of people. Last
summer a
sow and two cubs walked into the Glen Ellen site in mid afternoon. I once
spent a night at the Lake Merced back country campground where the noise
from
bears made sleep almost impossible. The only bear I've see outside of these
camps
was while I was hiking. It ran away.
AT Vet
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:27:59 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] umbrellas revisited
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <18a.23e2e385.2d26e7ff@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
The following summaries are from reviewers at well known backpackers field
test organization on Birdie Pal umbrellas:
In summary, I must say that this umbrella is a well designed, well crafted,
water shedding tool. ? The materials have a feel of quality, the operation
of
opening and closing the umbrella is smooth. ? The form, fit, and function of
the Birdiepal Outdoor Umbrella is absolutely first rate.
I would recommend this umbrella to anyone who is considering an umbrella for
general application. I would recommend the manufacturer without reservation,
given the high quality of this product.
? As I said at the beginning of this report, ? I really like the idea of
using an umbrella, but until someone invents one that accommodates all of
the
vagaries of Nature, I'll keep using my poncho.
In my Field Test Report, I listed a few ideas which would make using an
umbrella much more practicable for me.? I have included that list here as
well
because it has been reinforced to me over the past several months:
"1. I would make the shaft as long as a standard walking stick so that it
could replace one of my poles. (possibly adjustable)
2.? I would make the canopy tear drop shaped (or rectangular at the very
least).? This would provide a larger area of coverage which could be rotated
to
block rain as needed, but would be narrow enough to not be snagged by trees
so
easily.
3.? I would get rid of that silly little compass.
4.? The handle would have to be a full sized handle"
As an addendum to this list, I would also like to see a way of attaching the
umbrella to any backpack which would be both easy to use (quick connect/
disconnect), and stable enough to be reliable.
?? As reported before, I did use the umbrella for sun protection while
stopped on a rocky bald, and was quite comfortable, in spite of the black
color of
the canopy. To test the umbrella on a woodsy trail, I have left it up for
some
hiking in wooded areas.? In spite of numerous brushes with leaves and small
branches, the umbrella is holding up unscathed.? I have been able to slip
the
handle between my back and pack, or between the sternum strap and a piece of
elastic tied around a shoulder strap.? If I switch packs, I may have to
devise
another carry method, or hike with one pole while using the umbrella.?
Wind? All I have to say about that is ha ha ha... The Birdiepal Outdoor
laughs in the face of wind! It has no fear of wind! Seriously though, this
thing is
the toughest umbrella you'll find. Wind is NO problem.
Now, we don't do comparisons on (deleted to keep list pure), but since the
Junior and Outdoor are made by the same manufacturer, I'll say just one
thing:
Personally, I will probably carry the Junior into the backcountry in
preference
to the Outdoor. The weight savings is important to me, and the difference in
the handle and lack of metal parts in the Outdoor don't really make much
difference to me. And the compass? Cute, but not really much of a necessity
for me.
Although the compass actually does work if you are careful to hold it level!
Final Word: If you need an umbrella, buy a Birdiepal Junior or Outdoor.
(period) You will have it forever and you will be glad you spent the money!
So I guess my questions are: Are the above opinions relevant to the PCT
list? Were past opinions posted about umbrellas relevant to the list? Do
they
destroy the purity of the list? Did past opinions posted on umbrellas
destroy
the purity of the list? How is having potential daily posts (no I' m not
going
to, but I could) better than having one monthly digest? Do the above
reviewers
have some sort of agenda for Birdie Pal umbrellas? Inquiring minds want to
know, in more ways than one
Next up Frogg Toggs ( not really-- it's too much of a pain in the butt to
keep copying and pasting)
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 11:09:14 EST
From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <11e.295974f8.2d26f1aa@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/1/2004 9:46:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, Ddd51@aol.com
writes:
>>>>>the only place you are likely to see a bear is at the back country
camps
in Yosemite>>>>><<<<
I agree. In forty years of travel in the High Sierra, I have seen one bear
that was not directly associated with a pile of campers. I have had them
circle
my tent and blow their breath on me. People are not on PCT bear's diet.
They are shy, gentle creatures... unless they want your food and you won't
give
it to them or they have your food and you try to get it back. The "between
the
mother and cub" story is also true...I believe.
No Way
Ray E
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:55:57 +0000
From: "christin pruett" <christinpruett@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <BAY9-F12G6nI2L4Hu2l000467e2@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
However if you are talking biodiversity, I think the PCT would easily
surpass the CDT given the variety of ecoregions one would hike through on
the PCT. Unless you're only counting charismatic-mega-fauna then I'm sure
the CDT would win.
Christy
>Although incredibly scenic, viewing wildlife is one on my main reason for
>hiking, and unless you count lizards and marmots (lol) the PCT offered the
>least
>amount of wildlife of the Triple Crown, atleast when I passed, while the
>CDT
>had by far the most.
>
>Literally 1000's of elk, plus deer, black bear, griz, moose, antelope, wild
>horses, mountain lion, rattle snake, javelina, mountain goat, mountain
>sheep
>(ram?), marmot, pika, bald and golden eagle, cranes, etc. It seemed
>everyday it
>was something new.
>
>It's well worth the effort and a good choice after hiking the PCT.
>
>YMMV,
>
>Sly
_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work - and
yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:21:41 EST
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears
To: christinpruett@hotmail.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <18f.240d20d9.2d2702a5@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/2/2004 11:57:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
christinpruett@hotmail.com writes:
> However if you are talking biodiversity, I think the PCT would easily
> surpass the CDT given the variety of ecoregions one would hike through on
> the PCT. Unless you're only counting charismatic-mega-fauna then I'm sure
> the CDT would win.
>
Well, I was talking wildlife. I suppose you're correct when speaking of
"ecoregions", given that the CDT doesn't ever go below 4000 feet.
However, I believe the AT is the most biodiverse of the three, with perhaps
more species in the Great Smokies alone.
Sly
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:22:31 -0800
From: "Kent Ryhorchuk" <kentr-lists@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [pct-l] New to list
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000001c3d15d$62fd3170$6400a8c0@OFFICE>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi everybody,
My name is Kent Ryhorchuk and my wife and hiking partner is Cathy Brewer
(who may also post under my email).
We are new to the list and would like to introduce ourselves. We are
planning our 2004 thru-hike right now and we are looking to get the
usual trail condition and So. Cal. water reports from the list as the
hiking season approaches. As former PCT section hikers we might have
some useful information to volunteer as well.
Some names on the list are familiar to us, as we hiked from Mexico to
Oregon in 2002. You might remember us as Hamburger and Helper.
Later,
Kent.
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:06:18 EST
From: Lonetrail@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Again
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <3a.42fbdd1c.2d27293a@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hey
Bears are really lazy they prefer scavenging rather them making a kill. They
usually do not like to make human contact. I really don't know or believe
all
the stories about bears raiding camp sites, except around Yosemite that is
on
the PC. If you want to hear bear stories go backpacking with weekend
warriors
they all have seem in there minds dozens of bear attack, each story out does
the other. I have seen only one bear from Mexico to the Oregon border. Maybe
they don't like my smell.
I do believe bears react differently in different section of the world, just
as one explained about the CDT were you may see much more wild life because
of
shear numbers.
When I lived back east we have a saying if you see a bear in the morning it
will be in a freezer by night fall. I will close with this old Indian story.
An eagle can see a leaf fall from 1000 ft. A wolf can hear a leaf fall from
a
1000 ft. A bear can smell a leaf fall from a 1000 feet.
lonetrail
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:55:48 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear Again
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <5b.448a6d9b.2d2734d4@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/2/04 12:07:24 PM, Lonetrail@aol.com writes:
<< An eagle can see a leaf fall from 1000 ft. A wolf can hear a leaf fall
from a
1000 ft. A bear can smell a leaf fall from a 1000 feet.
And man is the crown of creation? Well, in some ways I guess. Some of us are
pretty good at math.
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:31:10 -0800
From: "Carl (1977 Kelty Kid)" <csiechert@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <BAY7-DAV3NCfZeQkZdX0001f4bc@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> the right circumstances. I've done some hiking in bear country and have
> never seen one. How likely is it that one would encounter a bear on the
> PCT, any real statistics?
No statistics, but here's some old anecdotal data: On our 1977 thru hike, we
saw bears at Tuolumne Meadows, Marble Mountains, and Old Baldy (southern
Oregon)--total of five visual sightings. In addition, we saw irrefutable
evidence of recent bear activity at Lake Arrowhead (southern California),
Kings Canyon, elsewhere in Marble Mountains, and Walupt Lake trail (southern
Washington).
More recent trips in the Sierra (but usually after thru-hiker season)
confirm that they are most definitely still out there. Will you see one?
Only if you're lucky.
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:46:36 -0800
From: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: "Carl (1977 Kelty Kid)" <csiechert@hotmail.com>,
<pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <01f901c3d18a$a8a4a3c0$6500a8c0@station101>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
to increase your chances of bear sightings, camp at 1,000 island lake !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl (1977 Kelty Kid)" <csiechert@hotmail.com>
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food
> > the right circumstances. I've done some hiking in bear country and have
> > never seen one. How likely is it that one would encounter a bear on the
> > PCT, any real statistics?
>
> No statistics, but here's some old anecdotal data: On our 1977 thru hike,
we
> saw bears at Tuolumne Meadows, Marble Mountains, and Old Baldy (southern
> Oregon)--total of five visual sightings. In addition, we saw irrefutable
> evidence of recent bear activity at Lake Arrowhead (southern California),
> Kings Canyon, elsewhere in Marble Mountains, and Walupt Lake trail
(southern
> Washington).
>
> More recent trips in the Sierra (but usually after thru-hiker season)
> confirm that they are most definitely still out there. Will you see one?
> Only if you're lucky.
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:59:37 -0800
From: "Carl (1977 Kelty Kid)" <csiechert@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <BAY7-DAV37wqq1bpzCF0001f386@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I wasn't going to wallow into this, but since in a later post you
(CMountainDave) said you hate faulty logic, I can't let this go.
In days of yore, the "bureaucrats" insisted that hikers hang food. Some did
it properly and kept their food. Others didn't, the bears learned from their
mistakes, and then became a threat to everyone--even those who hung food
"properly." Bears 1, Hikers/bureaucrats 0.
With bear cans, you'll still have some hikers who don't use them, don't put
everything smelly in them, or don't secure the lid when they're unattended.
And in a few of those cases, it's going to cost them; the bear will get the
goodies. And bears will, to some extent, continue to associate hiker food
with easy eats. But here's why bear cans are different:
* There's higher compliance by hikers, for two reasons: 1) It's easier to
stuff food in a bear can than to properly hang it; anyone can use a bear can
in a few seconds, whereas properly hanging food sometimes takes hours, even
by someone with experience and knowledge. Most hikers don't have the
knowledge, experience, or time to do it right. 2) USFS and NPS are making a
much stronger push at education and enforcement than they ever did in the
hanging days.
* When a hiker loses food due to improper storage, he suffers and the bear
suffers. But the food of other hikers whose food is secured in bear cans is
still safe. This was not the case with hanging, as bears learned enough from
bad hangs to get at _all_ hangs. In the 8-10 years that bear cans have been
in use, I don't think one has ever failed (except the Ursack, which was
never fully accepted).
-----Original Message-----
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 10:02 AM
<snip>
bureaucrats who INSISTED for many decades that we hang our food, which, THEY
now admit, did absolutely nothing to solve the bear problem. Of course,
hikers who didn't know how to hang food was the REAL problem in their minds.
Now they are trusting these exact same hikers to have all their food and
toiletries properly stuffed into canisters at all times when not in use.
Gee, I wonder who they will blame this time around
<snip>
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:58:31 EST
From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <42.43ec60c9.2d275fa7@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/2/2004 3:30:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
csiechert@hotmail.com writes:
>>>any real statistics?>>>
In 2001, when I arrived at Arrestre Trail Camp... just before Big Bear... I
found a note on the table that someone had lost their food the night
before.
The camp is a somewhat popular walk in site with picnic tables, fire pits
and
piped water. It was unclear, from the note, whether the person was a PCT
hiker or not.
No Way
Ray E
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 20:13:54 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <1d9.17a22581.2d277152@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hey, I agree that bear cans are harder for bears to get into than hung food.
My main point is that neither causes a bear to become afraid of humans. As
has
been posted by others, bears have an incredible sense of smell. They are
going to detect the fact that you have food no matter what you do with it.
They
have no way of knowing from a distance whether they will be able to get your
food or not. If they are not afraid of you, they are going to enter your
camp to
investigate. This close proximity is not good for them or us and is not a
natural thing in the wilderness. They could get hurt by scared hikers
throwing
rocks, we could get hurt if they get aggressive for some reason. I would
like to
see the Park Service use methods that have been used in other areas with
success to condition the bears to not enter our camps, mainly with non
injurious
methods such as dog harassment. It makes sense to me. I just want the Park
Officials to have open minds on this. I don't feel that they do when they
simply
pass new regulations that rely on inexperienced hikers to solve the problem
for
them. I am hoping that one of the many hundreds of people on this list knows
somebody in Park management well enough to influence them enough to at least
give the conditioning method a try.
My experience with Park Officials here in Washington has shown that they
pretty much do as they want and ignore public input. (the goat fiasco in the
Olympics -e-mail me if you want details). I fear that is the case in the
Sierra.
I don't like the idea of being forced to carry extra weight, but that is
quite
secondary to the welfare of the bears. I don't think they are on the right
track and that is why I am speaking out. I guess it boils down to whether or
not
you think bears should be afraid of us or not. Some people don't want them
to
be so they can get up close and gawk at them and get close up pictures. That
is why they once had open dumps in Yosemite
Hope this makes sense.
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:17:17 -0800
From: "Carl (1977 Kelty Kid)" <csiechert@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <BAY7-DAV10OI5gOTrHL0001f67e@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> speaking out. I guess it boils down to whether or not you
> think bears should be afraid of us or not. Some people don't
> want them to be so they can get up close and gawk at them and
> get close up pictures. That is why they once had open dumps
> in Yosemite Hope this makes sense.
Yep, it does. I think the pro-can camp--hikers and park managers--also
agrees that bears should be afraid of us. But achieving that is impractical,
especially in the short term. It'll require a lot of conditioning, which is
expensive. And without also eliminating the food source (i.e., bear cans or
equivalent), you won't see results for a while (if ever). (Will someone have
to train each bear, or will they tell their friends and cubs?) OTOH,
providing a surefire method for keeping food from bears gets the food out of
their paws immediately, and they'll eventually lose interest after they
determine that the odds of scoring food are low.
Of course, there is no "surefire method"; even if the cans are 100% secure,
there will always be some noncompliance and misuse. Perhaps the best
solution is to do both: require use of the best available food storage
technology _and_ educate the bears.
Btw, for the past seven years, they've been using rubber bullets, dogs, and
fireworks to scare off bears in Mammoth Lakes. I don't know how successful
it's been, but if you Google "mammoth bear rubber bullets" you'll get a
number of sites with more info. The site of the guy who's implementing the
program there (and elsewhere) is http://www.bearaffairs.com/
Happy New Year,
Carl
------------------------------
Message: 35
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 21:47:18 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <112.2d294cb4.2d278736@aol.com>
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In a message dated 1/2/04 6:16:18 PM, csiechert@hotmail.com writes:
<< http://www.bearaffairs.com/ >>
Thank you for the link, Carl
------------------------------
Message: 36
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 19:13:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephen Gookin <themtgoat@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] newbe to list
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040103031358.58332.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com>
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Greetings;
My real name is Stephen, but have a trail name of Mountain Goat (themtgoat
at yahho)
Like Kent and Cathy, I am new to the list and should probably introduce
myself.
I went with "snickers" last year on 110 miles of the PCT ending at Reds
meadow.
Got the PCT bug and have begun planning the 2005 PCT hike starting just this
December. on 17 months left to go....:-)
I have had little experience with trips that require resupply, that is where
my learning curve is. But have had lots of trips in the Sierra, Trinites,
ect. (kings Canyon is my favorite). Up to about 11 days long (without
resupplying).
So thats alittle about myself.
Looks forward to having some chats with you all, and God bless you in this
new year.
-Stephen-
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003From CMountainDave@aol.com
Fri Jan 2 21:20:28 2004
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Subject: [pct-l] Another bear link
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From Carl's link, I found this link to be most informative. It explains
perfectly why my actions with that bear that entered my camp worked so well.
www.bearsmart.com/bearsBackyard/Alternatives.html
------------------------------
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End of pct-l Digest, Vol 9, Issue 1
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