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[pct-l] RE: Mt Whitney Questions
If you camp at Guitar Lake, you're pretty much going to be on rock
anyways. While there are patches of grass, they were very wet with snow
melt when I was there in June. I wouldn't camp on the top of Whitney,
but then again I wouldn't climb it again either. Lightning is a
possibility, and their is a warning against using the hut on top as a
shelter from a storm. However, most storms in the early summer are of
the afternoon, brief variety. If you climb in the early evening (it is
about 3 hours from Guitar Lake to the summit), and keep your eye on
the weather, you should be okay.
I, and other three thruhikers I was with, got hit with mild altitude sickness.
For me, this
was mostly lethargy and a slight headache. When I walked up Lassen
a couple of summers ago, I felt nothing. I've been to over 18,000 ft
with not too many problems and so was a little suprised that 14.5k would
affect me in the way that it did. A nap back at Crabtree Meadows
cleared everything up. I had slept the previous three nights at
over 10,000 ft and felt that I was well acclimatized. The best that
I can figure is that I hadn't been drinking enough water after leaving
southern California. In the south, I had poured as much in as I could
get. When I got to the Sierra, I think I let my guard down a bit
too much.
Suge
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, John Coyle wrote:
>
> Since Mt Whitney is so close to Sequoia National park, does the National
> Park Service have anything to do with administering it, or is that handled
> entirely by the Forest Service?
>
> I notice from this list and other places that people mention camping on the
> Mt Whitney summit. Is that legal, and if so, is it advisable due to the
> possibility of lightning strikes? It seems to me, from the photos I have
> seen, that a person would have to sleep mostly on slabs of hard rock in any
> case.
>
> My brother in law hiked to the Whitney summit last year and he mentioned
> seeing a number of people obviously affected by altitude sickness. I have
> recently hiked to the summits of Lassen Peak and Mt Tallac near Lake Tahoe
> with no evidence of altitude sickness. What is the likeliness of me getting
> sick on a peak that is so much higher like Mt. Whitney?
>
> "Everything not prohibited is mandatory"
> John Coyle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
> [mailto:pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:09 PM
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 9, Issue 22
>
>
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: Class of 2004 Gear (scott deputy)
> 2. Keen Sandals (John Vonhof)
> 3. Re: permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon (Ken Powers)
> 4. RE: Sierra East Side Shuttle Service? (David Dalbey)
> 5. Re: permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon (Bighummel@aol.com)
> 6. RE: permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon (Jerry Goller)
> 7. Re: permit paperwork around Lake Tahoe (ECPG)
> 8. Re: permit paperwork around Lake Tahoe (goslowgofar)
> 9. permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon (yogi yogi)
> 10. Re: hostels along the trail (Marshall Karon)
> 11. Sierra East Side Shuttle Service? (yogi yogi)
> 12. South-bound questions (adrian.borner@ch.abb.com)
> 13. Re: South-bound questions (Ilja Friedel)
> 14. Re: hostels along the trail (scott deputy)
> 15. Re: South-bound questions (Christopher Willett)
> 16. Re: South-bound questions (CMountainDave@aol.com)
> 17. Re: South-bound questions (Slyatpct@aol.com)
> 18. Re: South-bound questions (Bob Bankhead)
> 19. RE: South-bound questions (Marge Prothman)
> 20. Re: South-bound questions (Bob Bankhead)
> 21. Re: South-bound questions (Slyatpct@aol.com)
> 22. Re: South-bound questions (CMountainDave@aol.com)
> 23. Re: Sierra East Side Shuttle Service? (Joanne Lennox)
> 24. Re: stove (ROYROBIN@aol.com)
> 25. Re: Class of 2004 Gear (ROYROBIN@aol.com)
> 26. Re: South-bound questions (Joanne Lennox)
> 27. Re: South-bound questions (Joanne Lennox)
> 28. Re: South-bound questions (Slyatpct@aol.com)
> 29. Major Wanderlust happening here! (Joanne Lennox)
> 30. Re: Major Wanderlust happening here! (Jeffrey J. Olson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:56:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: scott deputy <oz4130@yahoo.com>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Class of 2004 Gear
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20040120005649.86864.qmail@web60507.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
>
> Another option is reflective twist ties, they used to be available at
> hunting oriented outdoor shops but I haven't looked for any lately.
>
> They are the same twist ties that come with trash bags but have a reflective
> coating that shines like triptease in a headlamp, they are easy to attach
> to ten stakes or guylines.
>
>
>
> Just put a small piece of reflective tape around/on your gear. Then put
> some
> clear packing tape on top of the reflective tape to make it more durable
>
> (reduce cracking, etc.). Go to the Walmart auto section to buy the red
> reflective
> tape. It also come in white reflective tape, but I like the red better.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" SweepstakesFrom
> jmaterick@hotmail.com Mon Jan 19 18:56:25 2004
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> From: "J. Bradley Materick" <jbmaterick@stanfordalumni.org>
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> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:56:59 -0500
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> Subject: [pct-l] Sierra East Side Shuttle Service?
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>
> Hello all,
>
> Recently, on a drive up I-395, I saw a sign for a shuttle service on the =
> East Side of the Sierra, but now I can't quite recall the name, nor can =
> I find it on the internet...
>
> Does anyone happen to know how to contact this shuttle service?
>
> Thank you!
> J. Bradley
>
> --------------------------------
> J. Bradley Materick
> jbmaterick@stanfordalumni.org
>
> Field Naturalist Program
> Department of Botany
> 120 Marsh Life Science Building
> University of Vermont
> Burlington, VT 05405
>
> (802) 578-3050 (cell)
> (802) 656-0423 (work)From oz4130@yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 19:03:29 2004
> Return-Path: <oz4130@yahoo.com>
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> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:04:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: scott deputy <oz4130@yahoo.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Subject: [pct-l] hostels along the trail
> X-BeenThere: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
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>
> I can't afford to stay in motels unless I split the cost with other hikers.
> I'm looking for a list of Hostels or very hiker friendly (cheap) motels that
> I can stay at without having to shack up.
>
> from lurking and reading I have picked up the following, I'm sure there are
> more.
>
> Agua Dulce - Hiker Heaven
>
> Pink Motel
>
> Truckee - Pooh's Corner
>
> Belden - Hostel
>
> Etna - Hostel (I think there was a post that said this was out of business)
>
> Ashland - Youth Hostel
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" SweepstakesFrom
> DPlotnikoff@mercurynews.com Mon Jan 19 19:15:23 2004
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> From: "Plotnikoff, David" <DPlotnikoff@mercurynews.com>
> To: "'pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net'" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
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> Subject: [pct-l] permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon
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>
> Greetings from a longtime list lurker and section hiker.
>
> This season I'm doing Peavine Creek ("infamous" section O which was in
> great shape when I stopped there last year) north to Willamette Pass. That's
> 477 miles, just under the line when it comes to getting a blanket permit
> from PCTA.
>
> Over the last week, I've been calling various National Forest offices trying
> to ascertain whether I need any wilderness permits at all. After being
> shuttled from ranger district office to ranger district office (the PCT of
> course, skirts the edge of many different jurisdictions) I've come to the
> conclusion that the answer is NO.
>
> Although Shasta-Trinity and Klamath NF offices seemed to be the most
> confused (with contradictory information about areas such as Castle Crags
> Wilderness and Trinity Alps wilderness being dispensed on their Web sites
> and by their occasionally clueless headquarters administrative staff) I
> explained as clearly as I could that I would be passing *through* both of
> those without stopping to camp in either. That seemed to clear that up. They
> seemed much firmer in declaring I wouldn't need permits to camp in either
> the Russian or Marble wilderness.
>
> The situation got clearer past the Oregon border. No ranger district office
> I called on the Winema, Willamette or Deschutes NFs needed any permit
> paperwork at all for Sky Lakes, Diamond Lake/Mt. Thiesen wilderness, etc.
>
> Does my information square with the experience of those who have done this
> section recently? I can't see any mention in any journal of permit hassles
> through here. (Yogi? The Hiker formerly known as Cupcake? Your thoughts?)
> It's just as a Bay Area person whose early experiences were shaped by many
> summers in Yosemite and Inyo NF, I'm just programmed to figure I have to
> fill out six forms in triplicate every time I grab my trowel and ...
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> David Plotnikoff
> San Jose Mercury News
> (408) 920-5867
> dplotnikoff@mercurynews.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:20:42 -0800
> From: "John Vonhof" <johnvonhof@comcast.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Keen Sandals
> To: "Jim Keener" <jkeener@pct04.com>, <pct-l@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <007201c3def3$9f7eeaa0$6501a8c0@davisnet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Jim asked:
> >> Anyone have experience with these?
>
> A friend who was on the testing staff at Teva is going to start to help them
> with development and marketing. Their website is pretty bare so far.
> http://www.keenfootwear.com. I will be following them and do a review in one
> of the upcoming issues of my ezine.
>
> John Vonhof
> http://www.johnvonhof.com
> Fixing Your Feet: Prevention and Treatment for Athletes
> http://www.footworkpub.com
> Subscribe to the free Fixing Your Feet Ezine at
> mailto:FixingYourFeetEzine-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:27:27 -0800
> From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon
> To: "Plotnikoff, David" <DPlotnikoff@mercurynews.com>,
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <004f01c3def4$90e02120$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sounds to me like you should hike that last 23 miles (maybe 12 out and 12
> back) and get your permit from the PCTA. :) Or at least tell thaem that your
> are.
>
> Ken
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Plotnikoff, David" <DPlotnikoff@mercurynews.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:12 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon
>
>
> > Greetings from a longtime list lurker and section hiker.
> >
> > This season I'm doing Peavine Creek ("infamous" section O which was in
> > great shape when I stopped there last year) north to Willamette Pass.
> That's
> > 477 miles, just under the line when it comes to getting a blanket permit
> > from PCTA.
> >
> > Over the last week, I've been calling various National Forest offices
> trying
> > to ascertain whether I need any wilderness permits at all. After being
> > shuttled from ranger district office to ranger district office (the PCT of
> > course, skirts the edge of many different jurisdictions) I've come to the
> > conclusion that the answer is NO.
> >
> > Although Shasta-Trinity and Klamath NF offices seemed to be the most
> > confused (with contradictory information about areas such as Castle Crags
> > Wilderness and Trinity Alps wilderness being dispensed on their Web sites
> > and by their occasionally clueless headquarters administrative staff) I
> > explained as clearly as I could that I would be passing *through* both of
> > those without stopping to camp in either. That seemed to clear that up.
> They
> > seemed much firmer in declaring I wouldn't need permits to camp in either
> > the Russian or Marble wilderness.
> >
> > The situation got clearer past the Oregon border. No ranger district
> office
> > I called on the Winema, Willamette or Deschutes NFs needed any permit
> > paperwork at all for Sky Lakes, Diamond Lake/Mt. Thiesen wilderness, etc.
> >
> > Does my information square with the experience of those who have done this
> > section recently? I can't see any mention in any journal of permit hassles
> > through here. (Yogi? The Hiker formerly known as Cupcake? Your thoughts?)
> > It's just as a Bay Area person whose early experiences were shaped by many
> > summers in Yosemite and Inyo NF, I'm just programmed to figure I have to
> > fill out six forms in triplicate every time I grab my trowel and ...
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> > David Plotnikoff
> > San Jose Mercury News
> > (408) 920-5867
> > dplotnikoff@mercurynews.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: 19 Jan 2004 17:41:58 -0800
> From: "David Dalbey" <david@dalbey.org>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Sierra East Side Shuttle Service?
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <AJEPKLIKKCDNKOAKPLFEMEGICIAA.david@dalbey.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> http://www.countyofinyo.org/transit/transit.htm
>
>
> :
> :
> :Hello all,
> :
> :Recently, on a drive up I-395, I saw a sign for a shuttle
> :service on the East Side of the Sierra, but now I can't quite
> :recall the name, nor can I find it on the internet...
> :
> :Does anyone happen to know how to contact this shuttle service?
> :
> ::
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:32:47 EST
> From: Bighummel@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon
> To: DPlotnikoff@mercurynews.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <18e.24c5bbb8.2d3ddf3f@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> THIS IS THE PERMIT POLICE! COME OUT OF THE FOREST WITH YOUR HANDS UP AND
> LAY
> YOUR ICE AXE DOWN SSSLLLOOOWWWLLLYYY!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:56:50 -0700
> From: "Jerry Goller" <jerrygoller@backpackgeartest.org>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <041d01c3df01$0e385500$6502a8c0@toshibauser>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I've found the best plan for dealing with the government is to lie. Tell
> them what ever they want to hear then do what you planned on doing
> anyway. It makes both them and you happy..... =o)
> Jerry
>
> http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive
> gear reviews and tests on the planet.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
> [mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Plotnikoff,
> David
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 6:13 PM
> To: 'pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net'
> Subject: [pct-l] permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon
>
>
> Greetings from a longtime list lurker and section hiker.
>
> This season I'm doing Peavine Creek ("infamous" section O which was in
> great shape when I stopped there last year) north to Willamette Pass.
> That's 477 miles, just under the line when it comes to getting a blanket
> permit from PCTA.
>
> Over the last week, I've been calling various National Forest offices
> trying to ascertain whether I need any wilderness permits at all. After
> being shuttled from ranger district office to ranger district office
> (the PCT of course, skirts the edge of many different jurisdictions)
> I've come to the conclusion that the answer is NO.
>
> Although Shasta-Trinity and Klamath NF offices seemed to be the most
> confused (with contradictory information about areas such as Castle
> Crags Wilderness and Trinity Alps wilderness being dispensed on their
> Web sites and by their occasionally clueless headquarters administrative
> staff) I explained as clearly as I could that I would be passing
> *through* both of those without stopping to camp in either. That seemed
> to clear that up. They seemed much firmer in declaring I wouldn't need
> permits to camp in either the Russian or Marble wilderness.
>
> The situation got clearer past the Oregon border. No ranger district
> office I called on the Winema, Willamette or Deschutes NFs needed any
> permit paperwork at all for Sky Lakes, Diamond Lake/Mt. Thiesen
> wilderness, etc.
>
> Does my information square with the experience of those who have done
> this section recently? I can't see any mention in any journal of permit
> hassles through here. (Yogi? The Hiker formerly known as Cupcake? Your
> thoughts?) It's just as a Bay Area person whose early experiences were
> shaped by many summers in Yosemite and Inyo NF, I'm just programmed to
> figure I have to fill out six forms in triplicate every time I grab my
> trowel and ...
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> David Plotnikoff
> San Jose Mercury News
> (408) 920-5867
> dplotnikoff@mercurynews.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:46:57 -0800
> From: "ECPG" <ECPG@peoplepc.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] permit paperwork around Lake Tahoe
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <002e01c3df08$1e3db9c0$08e64b43@user>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> While we're talking about permits, does the thru hiker permit work for the
> whole PCT section that is part of the Tahoe Rim Trail? Is a separate permit
> required for Desolation Wilderness especially if we are going to camp there,
> or will the thru hiker permit get us through that area?
> Are we going to need any other permits that are not self issuing on the TRT?
> We will not have a car or back up and hitching with goats is a problem. One
> of us has to stay while the other goes anyplace.
>
> Carolyn Eddy
> Goattracks Magazine
> www.goattracksmagazine.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:01:20 -0800 (PST)
> From: goslowgofar <goslowgofar@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] permit paperwork around Lake Tahoe
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20040120040120.75324.qmail@web20027.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Carolyn,
> Here is a link to the TRT website's thru-hiker page. There is information
> regarding permits.
> Katy
>
> http://tahoerimtrail.org/thru_hike.htm
>
> ECPG <ECPG@peoplepc.com> wrote:While we're talking about permits, does the
> thru hiker permit work for the
> whole PCT section that is part of the Tahoe Rim Trail? Is a separate permit
> required for Desolation Wilderness especially if we are going to camp there,
> or will the thru hiker permit get us through that area?
> Are we going to need any other permits that are not self issuing on the TRT?
> We will not have a car or back up and hitching with goats is a problem. One
> of us has to stay while the other goes anyplace.
>
> Carolyn Eddy
> Goattracks Magazine
> www.goattracksmagazine.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" SweepstakesFrom
> wandering_bob@comcast.net Mon Jan 19 22:04:36 2004
> Return-Path: <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
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> Message-ID: <000701c3df0a$93910e50$6401a8c0@BOB>
> From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
> To: "ECPG" <ECPG@peoplepc.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> References:
> <C742294845ABD41190920008C7A4CFB00DAF1E1A@email1.mercurynews.com><004f01c3de
> f4$90e02120$6501a8c0@pacbell.net>
> <002e01c3df08$1e3db9c0$08e64b43@user>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] permit paperwork around Lake Tahoe
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:05:00 -0800
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>
> Yes, a PCTA permit works everywhere along the PCT. It will not work for the
> remainder of the Tahoe Rim Trail, only for the 45 miles where they are one
> in the same.
>
> Wandering Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ECPG" <ECPG@peoplepc.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] permit paperwork around Lake Tahoe
>
>
> > While we're talking about permits, does the thru hiker permit work for the
> > whole PCT section that is part of the Tahoe Rim Trail? Is a separate
> permit
> > required for Desolation Wilderness especially if we are going to camp
> there,
> > or will the thru hiker permit get us through that area?
> > Are we going to need any other permits that are not self issuing on the
> TRT?
> > We will not have a car or back up and hitching with goats is a problem.
> One
> > of us has to stay while the other goes anyplace.
> >
> > Carolyn Eddy
> > Goattracks Magazine
> > www.goattracksmagazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:24:38 -0600
> From: "yogi yogi" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] permit paperwork in No. Cal. and Oregon
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <Law15-F76iGnSqJIc0y00000af6@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> If I read this correctly, your 447 miles are all on the PCT?? Why not
> "plan" a 500-mile trip. Apply for your PCT thru-hiker permit. When you're
> on the trail, "something" will happen which will prevent you from completing
>
> the last 53 miles of your"planned" hike. So you go home after walking 447
> miles.
>
> hee hee hee.
>
> Each year, multiple potential thru-hikers start the trail with their
> 500+mile thru-hiker permit. They quit at Lake Morena, or Big Bear City, or
> Wrightwood. They go home after not hiking at least 500 miles. Yet they
> were covered by the permit.
>
> Don't get me wrong, you're doing the right thing. It just seems like a lot
> of work when the "Visitor's Permit" provided by the PCTA would cover you
> just fine.
>
> yogi
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here.
> http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:29:17 -0800
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hostels along the trail
> To: "scott deputy" <oz4130@yahoo.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <002301c3df16$595ae6f0$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1F>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There is also one at Snoqualmie in Washington. Also Trail Angels at Donner
> Summit (Pooh Corner). You might be able to stay at Big Lake Youth Camp just
> past Mt. Washington in Oregon. There also are group camping spots like Big
> Bear, Sied Valley, Kennedy Meadows, Tuolumne Meadows.
>
> However, part of the fun is going in with a group and renting a cabin or
> room in Oregon (Elk Lake, Ollallie Lake, etc.) or Washington (White Pass
> comes to mind) or other places. Be open to what comes.
>
> Marshall Karon
> Portland, OR
> m.karon@comcast.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "scott deputy" <oz4130@yahoo.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:04 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] hostels along the trail
>
>
> > I can't afford to stay in motels unless I split the cost with other
> hikers. I'm looking for a list of Hostels or very hiker friendly (cheap)
> motels that I can stay at without having to shack up.
> >
> > from lurking and reading I have picked up the following, I'm sure there
> are more.
> >
> > Agua Dulce - Hiker Heaven
> >
> > Pink Motel
> >
> > Truckee - Pooh's Corner
> >
> > Belden - Hostel
> >
> > Etna - Hostel (I think there was a post that said this was out of
> business)
> >
> > Ashland - Youth Hostel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:30:39 -0600
> From: "yogi yogi" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Sierra East Side Shuttle Service?
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <Law15-F109k8a582BEs00055062@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> try: http://www.countyofinyo.org/transit/transit.htm
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find high-speed 'net deals - comparison-shop your local providers here.
> https://broadband.msn.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:15:17 +0100
> From: adrian.borner@ch.abb.com
> Subject: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>
> <OFDFBD20B2.B3F42588-ONC1256E21.00309925-C1256E21.0032D618@ch.abb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Slowly I start with my planning for this years section hike from the
> Canadian border to Oregon. I was thinking of flying into Seattle early
> August where I would prepare and send off my mail-drops. One possibility
> then would be to take Greyhound and travel to Manning Park via Vancouver.
> Since with my Swiss passport I am a bit worried about the border sitation,
> i.e. re-entering the US via the Green Border, I wonder if there is a
> possibility accessing the northern terminus of the PCT from the South, i.e.
> without leaving the States?
> The other questions is how many miles per day can I expect to make during
> this August-September hike, taking into account the shorter days. I am in
> reasonable good shape and averaged 20 miles on the AT (including days off)?
> Thanks
> Adrian alias Matterhorn AT01
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 01:56:33 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ilja Friedel <ilja@cs.caltech.edu>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: adrian.borner@ch.abb.com
> Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>
> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0401200147570.26159-100000@performance.cs.caltech.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi Adrian,
>
> > Since with my Swiss passport I am a bit worried about the border sitation,
> > i.e. re-entering the US via the Green Border
>
> I would seriously advice against entering the US via the "green border".
> The current poltical situation does not allow it. Your chances of being
> detected crossing it might be small. But
> a) US immigration is getting pretty good at tracking (legal) visitors
> using global data-bases. They might notice that you've left to
> Canada, did not enter officially and want to leave again
> b) In case that you are caught punishment is fairly severe. You might
> want to fight extradiction, which can be decided by fairly low
> ranking immigration officers. Legal expenses can be high and future
> entries impossible. (This happened to a colleage of mine.)
>
> I don't think the trade-off between risk and benefit is worth it right
> now.
>
> Ilja.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:12:15 -0800 (PST)
> From: scott deputy <oz4130@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hostels along the trail
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20040120121215.2008.qmail@web60510.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I agree, I'm looking foreward to meeting lots of people and sharring rooms.
> I was just looking for options of places that I could afford to crash by my
> self IF needed. Thanks for the suggestions.
> scott
>
> Marshall Karon <m.karon@comcast.net> wrote:
> However, part of the fun is going in with a group and renting a cabin or
> room in Oregon (Elk Lake, Ollallie Lake, etc.) or Washington (White Pass
> comes to mind) or other places. Be open to what comes.
> the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" SweepstakesFrom Slyatpct@aol.com
> Tue Jan 20 06:55:18 2004
> Return-Path: <Slyatpct@aol.com>
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> (4592);
> Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:55:44 -0500 (EST)
> From: Slyatpct@aol.com
> Message-ID: <121.2a1181d4.2d3e7f50@aol.com>
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:55:44 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: adrian.borner@ch.abb.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
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>
>
> If you don't want to enter the US illegally, you could always tag the border
>
> from Harts Pass which is accessible by road and retrace your steps. The
> last
> 32 miles of official trail are pretty awesome and well worth doing both
> ways.
>
> Sly
>
> In a message dated 1/20/2004 4:20:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> adrian.borner@ch.abb.com writes:
>
> > Since with my Swiss passport I am a bit worried about the border sitation,
> > i.e. re-entering the US via the Green Border, I wonder if there is a
> > possibility accessing the northern terminus of the PCT from the South,
> i.e.
> > without leaving the States?
> > The other questions is how many miles per day can I expect to make during
> > this August-September hike, taking into account the shorter days. I am in
> > reasonable good shape and averaged 20 miles on the AT (including days
> off)?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:21:14 -0500 (EST)
> From: Christopher Willett <chwillet@indiana.edu>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: Slyatpct@aol.com
> Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net, adrian.borner@ch.abb.com
> Message-ID:
> <Pine.GSO.3.96.1040120091926.29098A-100000@ariel.ucs.indiana.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I would definitely not skip the last part of the trail. From Harts Pass to
> the border are, I think, some of the best miles in Washington, the Goat
> Rocks and Fire Creek pass notwithstanding.
>
> Suge
>
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 Slyatpct@aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > If you don't want to enter the US illegally, you could always tag the
> border
> > from Harts Pass which is accessible by road and retrace your steps. The
> last
> > 32 miles of official trail are pretty awesome and well worth doing both
> ways.
> >
> > Sly
> >
> > In a message dated 1/20/2004 4:20:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > adrian.borner@ch.abb.com writes:
> >
> > > Since with my Swiss passport I am a bit worried about the border
> sitation,
> > > i.e. re-entering the US via the Green Border, I wonder if there is a
> > > possibility accessing the northern terminus of the PCT from the South,
> i.e.
> > > without leaving the States?
> > > The other questions is how many miles per day can I expect to make
> during
> > > this August-September hike, taking into account the shorter days. I am
> in
> > > reasonable good shape and averaged 20 miles on the AT (including days
> off)?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> Christopher Willett
> Department of Mathematics
> Indiana University
> 831 East Third Street
> Bloomington, IN. 47405-7106
> (812)-855-1883
> chwillet@indiana.edu
> mypage.iu.edu/~chwillet
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:33:34 EST
> From: CMountainDave@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <1d3.182b5e6d.2d3eb25e@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> If you are worried about the border, I would start at Hart's pass. I believe
>
> there is bus service to the town of Winthrop, a medium sized town where
> supplies should be available. Or mail a package to the tiny town of Mazama.
> You
> would need to get a ride to Mazama, about 20 miles from Winthrop. From
> Mazama you
> would need a ride to Hart's Pass, about another 20 miles away. If you have
> the
> money you could make reservations at a major lodge in Methow Valley and
> request transportation from Winthrop to Hart's Pass to avoid the hitches.
> http://www.methownet.com. Harts Pass to the Canadian Border is about 20
> miles. You
> could probably get the ranger at Harts pass to keep a cache of food to pick
> up on
> your way back from Canada. Another option is to just start south from Harts
> Pass
> By August you should know the situation of the reroute through Glacier
> Peak wilderness. If long detours and road walks are required you might
> consider
> starting at Steven's Pass. Not sure about transportation to Steven's Pass
> from
> Seattle
>
> Went skiing over the weekend. There's been very little new snow the last
> few
> weeks and so the snowpack is now at normal levels or even slightly below
> average at most places in Wa. David C
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:52:11 EST
> From: Slyatpct@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <154.2c047efc.2d3eb6bb@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> In a message dated 1/20/2004 11:35:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> CMountainDave@aol.com writes:
>
> > Harts Pass to the Canadian Border is about 20 miles.
> >
> >
>
> Maybe as the crow flies or they shortened the trail in the last few years,
> but according to the '95 guide, it's 31.4 miles from Harts Pass to the
> border.
>
> Sly
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:06:13 -0800
> From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <003701c3df77$b5dc1eb0$6401a8c0@BOB>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Actually, there is no public transportation into Winthrop. The closest
> Greyhound is in Okanogan, quite a ways east along highway 20. The airport is
> private - small planes only. No train. There is a new, local shuttle taxi
> http://www.methownet.com/mountaintransporter.html but you're still 165 miles
> from Seattle. I got caught there when a freak, record-setting storm forced
> even the local hunters down out of the wilderness in '97. My dear wife had
> to drive 7 hours from Portland, OR to rescue me.
>
> Wandering Bob
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CMountainDave@aol.com>
> Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
>
>
> > If you are worried about the border, I would start at Hart's pass. I
> believe
> > there is bus service to the town of Winthrop.
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:28:04 -0700
> From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.org>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000001c3df7a$c3468a10$6501a8c0@marge20g04myym>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> South bound hiker:
>
> I Agree with Sly if you can get a hitch or transportation to Harts Pass.
> Then Hike ONLY to the monument, once past this you have crossed the border
> into Canada.
> This would be 31.4 miles... it is another 7.2 miles into Manning Park.
> Then start your hike South from the monument. As others have said this is
> marvelous country and you are only adding an additional 31.4 miles to your
> trip and maybe for you it would only be a long days hike. I think your
> first resupply would then be at Stehiken (without hitching to the next small
> town). Do not think there was much damage on that part of the trail, but I
> could be wrong.
> Hope it all works out.
> Cheers,
> Marge [The Old Gal]
> http://www.prothman.org/marge
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:19:06 -0800
> From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000d01c3df81$e412abf0$6401a8c0@BOB>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Marge is absolutely correct. However, allow me to offer one small
> modification.
>
> Dig in a cache at Hart's Pass containing your supplies for the south-bound
> trip to Stehekin, then go north to the border and back. The Harts Pass
> ranger station probably won't be manned when you pass through so why risk
> not being able to drop off or recover your supplies? Incidentally, that is a
> tough 31 miles to the border and another 31 back to Harts Pass.
>
> You can always do Manning Park to the border and back to Manning before you
> start at Harts Pass. That way, you cross the border legally both times. This
> is the wrong climate in which to "test" the immigration and border patrol
> agencies on either side of the border. You could get shot with all the
> pressure and paranoia of the moment. Scruffy, dirty hikers fit the profile
> of radical terrorists.
>
> Wandering Bob
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.org>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:28 AM
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] South-bound questions
>
>
> South bound hiker:
>
> I Agree with Sly if you can get a hitch or transportation to Harts Pass.
> Then Hike ONLY to the monument, once past this you have crossed the border
> into Canada.
> This would be 31.4 miles... it is another 7.2 miles into Manning Park.
> Then start your hike South from the monument. As others have said this is
> marvelous country and you are only adding an additional 31.4 miles to your
> trip and maybe for you it would only be a long days hike. I think your
> first resupply would then be at Stehiken (without hitching to the next small
> town). Do not think there was much damage on that part of the trail, but I
> could be wrong.
> Hope it all works out.
> Cheers,
> Marge [The Old Gal]
> http://www.prothman.org/marge
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:34:12 EST
> From: Slyatpct@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <94.4243cb42.2d3ecea4@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> In a message dated 1/20/2004 1:19:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> wandering_bob@comcast.net writes:
>
> > Incidentally, that is a
> > tough 31 miles to the border and another 31 back to Harts Pass.
> >
>
> With it snowing, we thought it best to hike past Lakeview Ridge instead of
> getting stuck and camped at Hopkins Lake some 25... miles starting from
> Harts
> Pass, so it is doable roundtrip, in two or three days for a strong hiker. I
>
> might add, although I had a few, I didn't average 20 mpd on the AT, nor
> would I
> attempt to.
>
>
> >
> > You can always do Manning Park to the border and back to Manning before
> you
> > start at Harts Pass.
> >
> >
>
> To each their own, but why bother with the logistics, since the last few
> miles to Manning Park aren't official PCT and imo, aren't noteworthy.
>
> YMMV,
>
> Sly
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:17:27 EST
> From: CMountainDave@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <124.29fe73a8.2d3ed8c7@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> OOPs sorry about the misinformation. I was just guessing on the mileage. I
> thought there was transportation to Winthrop because when I was in Mazama
> someone offered to take me to Winthrop so I could catch a bus instead of
> hitching to
> Bellingham. Looks like it is pretty hard to get to Winthrop via public
> transportation. There is a shuttle service once you get to Methow Valley,
> even to
> Harts Pass David C
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:30:47 -0800
> From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sierra East Side Shuttle Service?
> To: "J. Bradley Materick" <jbmaterick@stanfordalumni.org>,
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <200401202002.i0KK2Jch025335@cnwmail.isomedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Wilder House Shuttle in Independence(skip Wilder), 760-878-2119. they run
> a kind of bed and breakfast(?). I called him on the spur of the moment, He
> was there in 10 minutes and also allowed me to keep my trailer at the House
> and picked me up driving my trailer. He was observent, prompt, reliable,
> and interesting. (His Grandfather did the first ascent of Mt. Whitney).
>
> Joanne
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:31:15 EST
> From: ROYROBIN@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] stove
> To: edmond@mydogmeg.net, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <6a.3a955a39.2d3eea13@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> In a message dated 1/17/04 8:10:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> edmond@mydogmeg.net writes:
>
> > I recall Brian Robinson posting over a year ago about the efficiency of
> cat
> >
> > stoves versus Pepsi can stoves. It was an interesting explanation going
> > into the detail how the fuel and air mixed for efficient heating. If
> anyone
> > saved copy, please forward it to me, I would enjoy re-reading it.
> >
> > Tangent
>
> Here's the entire posting:
> _____
>
> Subj: [pct-l] Alcohol Stove Design Theory
> Date: 10/23/02 2:48:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From: brian_a_robinson@hotmail.com (Brian Robinson) Sender:
> pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net To: BackpackingLight@yahoogroups.com CC:
>
> at-l@mailman.backcountry.net, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> Aaron,
>
> I don't know how to say this gently, but in my opinion you've stated as fact
> several things about alcohol stove design that are false. Allow me to be
> specific.
>
> You said:
> >There is no question that a pressurized type of alcohol stove (like the
> >photon or brasslite) will achieve boil faster than an open type, because
> >the pressure causes the fuel to dump its BTUs faster, therefore heating the
> >water more quickly.
>
> Sorry, but this is completely bogus. A bigger hole could more than make up
> for any pressure effect, even if higher pressure increased flow rate, which
> it often doesn't. Fluid transport is a VERY complicated non-intuitive
> science, and compressible fluids, like vaporized alcohol are even more
> complicated. It turns out there are two basic types of fluid flow, laminar
> and turbulent. Laminar flow is MUCH more efficient at transferring fluid
> than turbulent flow is. If you've ever watched a creek flowing across a
> smooth granite surface, you've seen both. At first, the water is clear, then
> white. The clear water is laminar flow. It moves faster than the turbulent
> white water ahead of it, thus it is shallower. The turbulent white water
> ahead is deeper because it's moving more slowly. So it turns out that even
> for a given hole size, flow rate is highly dependent upon whether the flow
> is laminar (fast) or turbulent (slow.) Stoves like yours and soda-can stoves
> use small holes because they create MORE turbulence. (I'll tell you why
> next.) But the flow rate is REDUCED, not enhanced by this. A large-hole
> stove like the Cat Stove uses the one large hole because this is the best
> way to achieve laminar flow.
>
> If laminar flow is so great, why does a soda-can stove use small holes? It's
> because turbulent flow is very efficient at mixing the vaporized alcohol
> with oxygen. Fire requires fuel, oxygen and heat. The turbulent flow of a
> soda-can stove ensures that all the alcohol burns very close to the holes,
> i.e. under the pot.
>
> Fire under the pot is where we want it right? Well, sort of. We want the
> fire as close to the bottom of the pot as possible. With a soda-can stove,
> the fire's down low, so it's best to set the pot low, near the burner.
> Hoever, this tends to block oxygen flow, and the turbulent nature of the
> design doesn't help oxygen flow in from the surrounding area. These stoves
> have a pretty blue flame when they're uncovered, but it's often not as
> pretty under a pot and windscreen.
>
> The Cat Stove works much differently. It uses laminar flow, so the vaporized
> fuel easily and quickly flows from the stove up toward the pot. This creates
> a chimney effect which draws large amounts of oxygen in the intake holes.
> The problem with laminar flow is that it's not very efficient at mixing the
> fuel with oxygen. There's large amounts of both flowing up toward the pot,
> but until they mix well, there's not much fire. Fortunately, the pot itself
> interrupts the flow, creating some turbulence. This means that much of the
> fire is automatically created right where we want it, on the bottom of the
> pot. This can be seen when the Cat Stove is in use. If there's no pot, an
> inefficient cold yellow flame shoots about a foot above the stove, but when
> the pot is in place, the flame turns blue (hotter and more efficient) and
> stays under the pot.
>
> So which is better? It's not at all clear from the theory. Properly
> constructed, either works very well. In my experience, the turbulent flow
> design is much harder to get right. The diameter and placement of the holes
> is critical. If the holes clog up with soot, performance suffers. If the
> stove gets bent or damaged, performance suffers. If the pressure leaks out,
> performance suffers. It takes a good tinkerer to get a sode-can stove
> working really well.
>
> The Cat Stove is much more forgiving. Lots of geometries work quite well. As
> long as the air flow stays laminar, it works. This means more people can
> successfully make and use a Cat Stove.
>
> You said:
> >There is some trade off in efficiency. Sgt Rock has shown that the open
> >mouth designs use fuel more frugally, albeit creating a significantly
> >longer boil time. Time is one thing we seem to have plenty of in the woods,
> >and many people don't care that they take longer. The open designs can also
> >simmer better because of this slower burn. Time to achieve boiling is an
> >elusive thing. I would like to again caution you (and your wife), to not
> >get too hung up on this particular number. Weight of the stove is a static
> >number that remains constant (assuming the scale is calibrated correctly).
> >I can say with confidence that the Solo weighs 1.150 ounces. But boil time
> >is affected by a plethora of factors including water and air temp, stove
> >temp, fuel temp, wind, type of pot used, construction and position of
> >windscreen and even lighting technique. The type of pot and lighting
> >technique seem to be especially volatile. Boil time can even be
> >significantly lowered by darkening the outside of a pot. These factors
> >explain the wide range of reported numbers.
>
> >Aaron
>
> For the record, all contests to date have shown the Cat Stove as the fastest
> to boil water. (But not by enough that anybody really cares.) Sgt. Rock
> showed that it's MORE fuel efficient than any commercial or home-made
> alcohol stove out there except his own design, which takes about twice as
> long to boil water. This more than makes up for the weight penalty of the
> Cat Stove vs the soda-can stove.
>
> Plans for the Cat Stove can be found at:
> http://royrobinson.homestead.com
>
> Sorry for the soap-box sermon. Can you tell I'm an engineer?
> Flyin' Brian
> _____
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:31:19 EST
> From: ROYROBIN@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Class of 2004 Gear
> To: Hiker97@aol.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <161.2a897d5b.2d3eea17@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Here's another option:
>
> (But first, I got no hit on the Campmor URL you mentioned when I tried it,
> so
> can't see what they're offering.)
>
> Just sew a D-ring on the front of each shoulder strap on your pack of choice
>
> and lasso the tops of your 2 liter soda bottles (or 1.5 liter disposable
> water
> bottles or whatever), and carry all the water you need. Advantages: Pretty
>
> near zero cost. The weight is carried if front instead of in your pack,
> counterbalancing the stuff you have to carry anyway. The water is easily
> accessible, being in front. The only problem is, the bottles will swing as
> you walk.
> So keep them from doing that with some heavy rubber bands or string or, as I
>
> did, a bit of nylon strapping and velcro.
>
> This will get you from Scissors Crossing to Barrel Springs safely even if
> the
> Trail Angels aren't looking out after you. With all respect for our TA's,
> who always seem to appear when we most need them, do not leave a water
> source in
> the southern deserts without enough water to get you to the next known
> water.
> You may get very uncomfortable, or worse. Oh, and for the Class of '04,
> who
> may not have done all their homework? The longest stretch of the PCT
> without
> water is not in southern California. It's the Hat Creek Rim. Look out for
> that.
> _____
>
> In a message dated 1/17/04 8:23:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, Hiker97@aol.com
>
> writes:
>
> > One option for carrying extra water is the Coghlan's universal bottle
> > carrier
> > (see www.campmor .com, #87672-H). I use two for carrying two 1.5 liter
> > bottles (from the local health food store, SmartWater). The Velcro
> > adjustable
> > straps around the bottle are very adjustable with a wide range of sizes.
> >
> > The carrier comes with straps so you can carry it across your chest and
> > weighs 2.75 ounces/$3.99 each. Not bad for carrying 1.5 liters.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:04:53 -0800
> From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>, <adrian.borner@ch.abb.com>
> Message-ID: <200401202036.i0KKaOch006901@cnwmail.isomedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I did not want to cross the border with my horse(involves a coggins test
> less than a month old, health certificat, vet examine at the border) so I
> did a loop going up the Paysayten river and hooking to the PCT 3 miles from
> the border at Castle Pass. I send this discription to another horse owner
> , and have cut and pasted fromthat post:
>
> I avoided the crossing by making a loop and traveling with another person.
> We left one trailer at Rainey pass where we exited, and drove the other to
> the robinson Creek Trailhead(informal campsites, good water, no grass,
> hitching rail), just outside of Mazama. There is a ranger station on the
> road to the trailhead and we left a package of two days of feed there and
> the ranger later transported it to the cabin at Harts Pass. We rode up and
> over Robinson Pass, down into the Paysayten River to the "airport" cabin
> (22 miles - no real water at the cabin, lots of grass); then airport over
> Dead Lake Pass into the Chuchwactee Creek , up to Frosty Pass, over to
> Castle Creek on the PCT,where we camped and then rode to the border and
> back -6 miles, about 23 total);Pct south to Hopkins and Woody Pass to a
> camp at "delicious spring" (good water, and very annoying deer that kept us
> awake all night -about 16 miles, but didn't know about the basins to the
> south, if they had water); thence to Hart,s Pass where there is a very good
> , but unseen basin with good grass and water just down the road (NE)from
> the cabin . A fire went through there this year and I don't know what is
> left but seems like some of the best grass on the trail is in burned areas.
> the next day camped in a small basin on the hillside beyond Glacier Pass
> (some water, little grass, go uphill to a second bench, lots of people on
> the bench near the trail). Reached Rainey Pass the next day (hitching
> posts on North side at end of road and just beyond bathrooms, not visible
> from parking lot).
>
> If you started at rainy pass and went north, you could backtrack and exit
> from Harts/slate Pass - there is a connector from the PCT at that point to
> the Robinson Pass Trail (about 4 miles to get to the Robinson Pass trail
> and maybe 10 over the pass and down to the trailhead). Would save a day or
> two - the terrain from Rainy Pass to Hart's Pass is pretty rough in places
> and a perpetual problem with the tread crawling downhill and being blocked
> by rockfall from above.
>
> Joanne
>
> ----------
> > From: adrian.borner@ch.abb.com
> > To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:15 AM
> >
> >
> > Slowly I start with my planning for this years section hike from the
> > Canadian border to Oregon. I was thinking of flying into Seattle early
> > August where I would prepare and send off my mail-drops. One possibility
> > then would be to take Greyhound and travel to Manning Park via Vancouver.
> > Since with my Swiss passport I am a bit worried about the border
> sitation,
> > i.e. re-entering the US via the Green Border, I wonder if there is a
> > possibility accessing the northern terminus of the PCT from the South,
> i.e.
> > without leaving the States?
> > The other questions is how many miles per day can I expect to make during
> > this August-September hike, taking into account the shorter days. I am in
> > reasonable good shape and averaged 20 miles on the AT (including days
> off)?
> > Thanks
> > Adrian alias Matterhorn AT01
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:22:39 -0800
> From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>, <adrian.borner@ch.abb.com>
> Message-ID: <200401202054.i0KKsAch013620@cnwmail.isomedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I reread your post,and oneof the main problems that you will have is
> getting to the trailhead from Seattle. It is much easier to hitch out from
> a trailhead than it is to start from Sea-Tac Airport and get to Hart,s
> Pass, Rainey Pass etc.
>
> The guide and the traffic will be northbound. I have used the guide going
> southbound but it is frustrating and sometimes difficult to envision in the
> opposite direction. I ended up just using the maps, because the
> descriptions were so useless southbound. All the thruhiker and long
> distance travelers willl be going northbound for the most part; if you were
> going north you would sometimes have company and be hiking with others;
> this is unlikely to happen southbound. Also if you get to know people
> onthe northbound there is a good chance of making a contact that will be
> able to transport you from Rainey Pass. (It would be even easier if you
> hiked back to Stehikin and took the ferry, a lot of people from Seattle
> visit Stehikin and you could probably find one in Chelen at the ferry
> parking lot, or find somebody on the Ferry).
>
> So why not start from Oregon and go Northbound? You could fly into
> Portland, and there will probably be some contact from jPortland. The
> Amtrak Train goes to Eugene, then over to Klamath Falls. YOu could take a
> bus down I -5 from Eugene,maybe get droppped off at Callahans (on I-5 and
> about 1 mile from the trail.)
>
> Joanne
>
> ----------
> > From: adrian.borner@ch.abb.com
> > To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:15 AM
> >
> >
> > Slowly I start with my planning for this years section hike from the
> > Canadian border to Oregon. I was thinking of flying into Seattle early
> > August where I would prepare and send off my mail-drops. One possibility
> > then would be to take Greyhound and travel to Manning Park via Vancouver.
> > Since with my Swiss passport I am a bit worried about the border
> sitation,
> > i.e. re-entering the US via the Green Border, I wonder if there is a
> > possibility accessing the northern terminus of the PCT from the South,
> i.e.
> > without leaving the States?
> > The other questions is how many miles per day can I expect to make during
> > this August-September hike, taking into account the shorter days. I am in
> > reasonable good shape and averaged 20 miles on the AT (including days
> off)?
> > Thanks
> > Adrian alias Matterhorn AT01
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:55:58 EST
> From: Slyatpct@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] South-bound questions
> To: adrian.borner@ch.abb.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <a0.373b25a.2d3eefde@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> One more thing Adrian, if you decide to take the trail from Harts Pass
> north,
> you may want to considering doing the 25 miles to Lakeview Ridge and camping
>
> there depending on the weather.
>
> Had it not been snowing and blowing I would have, the view was absolutely
> stunning. Try to get there for sunset. There's a small campsite on the
> ridge
> that's sheltered from winds from the west. Unfortunately, when I was there
> the
> winds were blowing hard from the east and I thought better of it, so I
> camped
> down by the lake. It looks like you can pick up water about 5 miles south,
> maybe less.
>
> Also, it's the highest point on the trail in Washington, which makes it
> doubly special.
>
> Sly
>
> PS I wouldn't worry about getting to Harts Pass. Just try and get as close
> as you can and if you can't find a shuttle, just hitch, it's all part of the
>
> adventure.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:22:34 -0800
> From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Major Wanderlust happening here!
> To: "pct-mailing list" <PCT-L@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <200401202154.i0KLsach004632@cnwmail.isomedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>
> This feels like withdrawal. This is the first year in 5 that I don'thave a
> large trip planned.
>
> Most people are satisfied with a few days out and back trip. But even from
> the beganning when I was climbing, I wanted to stay out all summer, and
> climb all the peaks on one ridge, go down into a pass and catch another
> ridge and continue for as long as I could. Pretty hard to find another
> climber to do this. Fortunately, for a while I had a husband that liked
> the same thing but he is now retired.
>
> Just hiking has never much satisfied me: I want to go somewhere. It gets
> something down deep in my soul to be in a new wildness day after day,
> walking and packing.
>
> I wondered if it would be the same if I chose a 100 mile section of the PCT
> and hiked it back and forth for 2,650 miles. Or suppose I took an 80 mile
> segment and had a big cache on each end, and leisurely went back and forth
> and did every side trail and spent months in the same area, walking and
> absorbing one area. Would it be the same? Which 80-100 mile segment would
> you choose?
>
> Goforth
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:08:26 -0700
> From: "Jeffrey J. Olson" <jjolson@uwyo.edu>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Major Wanderlust happening here!
> To: "pct-mailing list" <PCT-L@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <005301c3dfa1$ed85bf40$f0344881@uwyo.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Tuolomne Meadows to Whitney or
> Snoqualmie Pass to Stevens Pass
>
> Jeff Olson
> Laramie WY
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
> To: "pct-mailing list" <PCT-L@backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:22 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Major Wanderlust happening here!
>
>
> >
> > This feels like withdrawal. This is the first year in 5 that I don'thave
> a
> > large trip planned.
> >
> > Most people are satisfied with a few days out and back trip. But even
> from
> > the beganning when I was climbing, I wanted to stay out all summer, and
> > climb all the peaks on one ridge, go down into a pass and catch another
> > ridge and continue for as long as I could. Pretty hard to find another
> > climber to do this. Fortunately, for a while I had a husband that liked
> > the same thing but he is now retired.
> >
> > Just hiking has never much satisfied me: I want to go somewhere. It gets
> > something down deep in my soul to be in a new wildness day after day,
> > walking and packing.
> >
> > I wondered if it would be the same if I chose a 100 mile section of the
> PCT
> > and hiked it back and forth for 2,650 miles. Or suppose I took an 80 mile
> > segment and had a big cache on each end, and leisurely went back and forth
> > and did every side trail and spent months in the same area, walking and
> > absorbing one area. Would it be the same? Which 80-100 mile segment
> would
> > you choose?
> >
> > Goforth
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/options/pct-l
>
>
>
> End of pct-l Digest, Vol 9, Issue 22
> ************************************
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
----------------------
Christopher Willett
Department of Mathematics
Indiana University
831 East Third Street
Bloomington, IN. 47405-7106
(812)-855-1883
chwillet@indiana.edu
mypage.iu.edu/~chwillet