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[pct-l] Favorite Piece of Gear



Campmor has the Times Helix watches for $59.97.  Item #87216 in their 2003
Gift catalog, while supplies last.  I've seen them advertised from $150.00
to $225.00.  At $59.97, you'll love it.  

Scottie
3lungs

-----Original Message-----
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Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24


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Today's Topics:

   1. chester CA resupply (yogi yogi)
   2. Advice please (Canoe08057@aol.com)
   3. RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (Edmond Meinfelder)
   4. Re: GIS layer for PCT (AsABat)
   5. Re: Advice please (Marshall Karon)
   6. Bird deaths from wind turbines (Edmond Meinfelder)
   7. favorite piece of gear (Randy Forsland)
   8. bears and food  (scott deputy)
   9. RE: GIS for PCT (Don C)
  10. bear bags (Eric Yakel)
  11. Re: bears and food  (Marshall Karon)
  12. REAL Tough Horses (CMountainDave@aol.com)
  13. Re: Advice please (CMountainDave@aol.com)
  14. Re: bears and food  (Edmond Meinfelder)
  15. Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (CMountainDave@aol.com)
  16. Re: favorite piece of gear (Datto)
  17. Re: bears and food (CMountainDave@aol.com)
  18. RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (Robert Ellinwood)
  19. How to handle a bear (CMountainDave@aol.com)
  20. RE: favorite piece of gear (Robert Ellinwood)
  21. Re: How to handle a bear (AsABat)
  22. Re: GIS layer for PCT (Slyatpct@aol.com)
  23. Re: GIS layer for PCT (Slyatpct@aol.com)
  24. RE: bears & food (Jon Lovejoy)
  25. RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (PCT-L Admin)
  26. 200 mile backpack (Pegasus12125@aol.com)
  27. RE: bears & food (Hiker)
  28. Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (Ilja Friedel)
  29. Re: bears & food (DAVCATDAV@aol.com)
  30. RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (Gray)
  31. RE: bears & food (Gray)
  32. bears and food  (scott deputy)
  33. Re: bears & food (Slyatpct@aol.com)
  34. Re: bears & food (Slyatpct@aol.com)
  35. Re: bears & food (Randy Forsland)
  36. Re: bears & food (Slyatpct@aol.com)
  37. RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (larry hillberg)
  38. Re: bears & food (Bighummel@aol.com)
  39. Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications (CMountainDave@aol.com)
  40. Re: bears & food (Bob Bankhead)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:12:48 -0600
From: "yogi yogi" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] chester CA resupply
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <Law15-F57ClltcNdbUu00006212@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

There is a fantastic grocery store in Chester.  Redwood's right, none of the

motels have air conditioning.  Chester is an 8-mile hitch off the PCT at 
exactly halfway:  1329 miles.  You just gotta go into town to celebrate!

_________________________________________________________________
Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access - limited 
time only! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:05:16 EST
From: Canoe08057@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] Advice please
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <162.2a1cff12.2d236cbc@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Forgive me if you have already seen a similar, earlier message from me.   I 
sent it to this listserve, but I'm not sure I was officially on the system
at 
the time.   

I seek advice on sections of the PCT that would take perhaps 3 weeks this 
coming summer.   I (53 years old in good but not exceptional shape) and 17 
year-old son want to backpack this coming summer.   We have done the Long
Trail in 
Vermont (275 miles) and are seeking sections that are not too high, not too 
strenuous, and are reasonably easy for resupply every 6-8 days.

Your suggestions--particularly for the northern Oregon and southern 
Washington portions of the Trail would be most helpful.   A reasonably
accessible start 
and end point would be most helpful.

Thank you in advance for your help!

Larry

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:46:32 -0700
From: Edmond Meinfelder <edmond@mydogmeg.net>
Subject: RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031230174443.017bb3f0@mail.mydogmeg.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 03:59 PM 12/30/2003 -0600, Steve Jackson wrote:
>Looks like a great website with great information!!  However, I have to 
>agree STRONGLY with Marge on this.

I also agree with Marge and Jackson.

Tangent 


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:48:06 -0800
From: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] GIS layer for PCT
To: "David Tibor" <david_tibor@yahoo.com>,	"PCT-L"
	<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <001801c3cf37$c1548ac0$1501010a@sd.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks for the explanation, David. However, simply taking "a relatively
dense series of GPS coordinates all along the pCT" won't work unless you
have a base layer that is more accurate than the USGS topo quads. I'm told
by the authors of the guide book that even the compass bearings of the trail
on the map sometimes don't match the compass bearings on the ground, as the
topo contours are not always correctly located. Only a few degrees could
send you off crosscountry over a ridge instead of down the trail into a
canyon. Fortunately, most hikers only look at the line on the map, match it
to the topography, and go. GPS really isn't needed on the PCT except maybe
in the winter.

Good luck on your project. It sounds like fun.

AsABat


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:03:46 -0800
From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Advice please
To: <Canoe08057@aol.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000901c3cf39$f1d8ab20$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1F>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Probably everyone doing the PCT would agree that Oregon is the easiest State
on the PCT. You can do resupplies of between 3 and 5 days fairly easy. The
most scenic sections are those at Crater Lake and then from the Sisters
north (that means from Bend/Elk Lake). You could also start at McKenzie Pass
or Santiam Pass, but you would miss some good scenery. You can resupply at
Big Lake Youth Camp, Ollallie Lake, Timberline, and Cascade Locks depending
on your pace.

In Washington, the going gets tougher with more ups and downs. The scenery
is spectacular, but if you aren't in shape, you will feel it (maybe not your
son). The section between Cascade Locks and White Pass is about 7-8 days
unless you stop at Trout Lake. The Goat Rocks in good weather is as good as
it gets. Then, each additional section is about 5-6 days.

Generally, you are advised to mail (or UPS) yourself supplies because you
will not find adequate supplies unless you go way off trail (except for
Cascade Locks). If you aren't fussy, you can buy enough at Snoqualmie and
Stevens Pass (Skykomish) to get by.

Getting off at Cascade Locks, White Pass,  Snoqualmie, or Stevens Pass would
be easy. Getting on from Bend to Elk Lake, McKenzie Pass, or Santiam Pass
would take some help (probably could hitch, hire a cab, etc.).

Enjoy!

Marshall Karon
Portland, OR
m.karon@comcast.net


----- Original Message -----
From: <Canoe08057@aol.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 4:05 PM
Subject: [pct-l] Advice please


> Forgive me if you have already seen a similar, earlier message from 
> me.
I
> sent it to this listserve, but I'm not sure I was officially on the 
> system
at
> the time.
>
> I seek advice on sections of the PCT that would take perhaps 3 weeks this
> coming summer.   I (53 years old in good but not exceptional shape) and 17
> year-old son want to backpack this coming summer.   We have done the Long
Trail in
> Vermont (275 miles) and are seeking sections that are not too high, 
> not
too
> strenuous, and are reasonably easy for resupply every 6-8 days.
>
> Your suggestions--particularly for the northern Oregon and southern
> Washington portions of the Trail would be most helpful.   A reasonably
accessible start
> and end point would be most helpful.
>
> Thank you in advance for your help!
>
> Larry
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options: 
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:07:39 -0700
From: Edmond Meinfelder <edmond@mydogmeg.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Bird deaths from wind turbines
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031230175130.01848ae0@mail.mydogmeg.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

The following link has an interesting article about wind turbines and bird 
deaths. Though the article is about the Altamont Wind Farm west of the San 
Francisco Bay Area (in the Black Hills, I believe), it mentions Tehachapi 
and San Gorgonio Pass which are supposedly safer for birds, but doesn't 
elaborate on why.

I found the wind turbines interesting and was lucky to meet an engineer who 
was happy to answer my questions about them. I recall the turbines at 
Tehachapi can generate about a half or quarter megawatt each and newer 
turbines can do up to 3 megawatts in areas with high wind density. Though 
the U.S. is one of the leading producers of wind energy, growth of wind 
power is constrained by land use issues and a limited number of suitable 
areas.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2310627

Tangent


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:27:06 -0800
From: "Randy Forsland" <randy_forsland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] favorite piece of gear
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <Law10-OE16KufVma0os0001af9a@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Somebody asked me a while back about some of the new gear that I bought for
the trip and which item turned out to be the most useful. I have got to say
that it was the Helix altimeter watch. I never used one on any previous
hikes and it proved to be a great asset. As a person that likes to know
where he is at any given moment, it really helped to find out exactly where
you were on the trail.

One time coming from Hwy 2 heading towards Agua Dulce with the Ewoks, we
were not sure which spring we were at as the BOL listed two springs and we
had only passed one..so was the first one dry or was there another one a
mile or so down the trail??  Should we get water here or wait ?? A quick
check of the altimeter showed that we were indeed at the second spring and
thus only 4.5 miles from our destination for the night..

Sounds trivial, but it can really lift your spirits sometimes to know
exactly how close you are to your destination. Plus, it keeps you from being
fooled by all of those "false" summits in some of the passes...You think
that you are at the top only to find out that you have another 1000 feet
<sigh>to climb..I hate that..having the altimeter kept me from all of these
disappointments.

To some people, it doesn't matter...but it did to me..especially when your
knee is acting up and you don't how much more you can get out of it that
day..I did see a few other hikers wearing them this last season.

The Timex Helix watch is the model that I bought and I found a place where
they are blowing them out for about half of what I paid last year.

around 69 bucks...

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=108923

Just my 0.02

Redwood

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:33:12 -0800 (PST)
From: scott deputy <oz4130@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] bears and food 
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20031231013312.62221.qmail@web60508.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm in the planning stages for an '04 hike,  I've been watching this list
for a while but haven't seen this question posed.  Bears and Food:  
 
How often do you bear bag you food while thru hiking?  I usually hike a
couple of miles after dinner and don't camp at established sites
 
I thought that canisters are required on some parts of the trail.  Are there
also places where  boxes are provided. 
 
I'm from the midwest and don't have much bear experience. Just looking to
hear what is commonplace among thru hikers 
 
thanks 
 
dep 


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References:
<162.2a1cff12.2d236cbc@aol.com><000901c3cf39$f1d8ab20$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1
F>
	<Law10-OE16KufVma0os0001af9a@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] favorite piece of gear
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Actually, I was wrong on the price..they have been rolled back to 49
bucks..Has a greta alarm..really annoying...cannot possibly sleep thru
it..;-)

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=114831

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:54:15 -0800
From: "Don C" <res0rf6j@verizon.net>
Subject: [pct-l] RE: GIS for PCT
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c3cf40$ff091df0$b7b53d04@mammoth>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

There is an interesting site at geodata.gov.  If you select the National Map
image on the home page it takes you to the USGS National Map.  This includes
shaded relief, place names, hydrography, etc, for the entire US.  Select the
zoom tool and you can zoom in pretty far.  You can also use the site to
discover other data that may be registered to the site and some data can be
downloaded.

There are lots of ways GIS could provide "interesting" information to
support a hike.  Various extensions to ArcGIS allow you to create 3D views,
perspectives, you can do fly-throughs from ground level, etc. Much much more
than just a planimetric map.  Whether or not these would be useful or not is
another question.  Steep price for the software and lots of work.  Great
fun, but if your goal is simply to plan a hike in the most efficient way,
there are easier ways.

I've worked at ESRI for 25 years and am the manager of their consulting
practice.  I've got access to all the software and tons of data.  What do I
use for planning - TOPO!

Don





Message: 16
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:15:12 -0800
From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] gps / gis for pct path?
To: "David Tibor" <david_tibor@yahoo.com>,	"PCT-L"
	<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <00f101c3ce61$9c6bb5c0$6401a8c0@BOB>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Try the software. It has full gps coordinates for the whole trail.
http://www.morethanamile.com/

MoreThanAMile Publications
by Ken Roberts
E-mail: Support@MoreThanAMile.com

      GPS Shareware (to upload waypoints to a GPS)
      Included in the CD-ROM discs are are waypoint files (*.wpt) for each
section of the Pacific Crest Trail created with the WindowsR GPS software
OziExplorer. These waypoint files consist of over 1,300 waypoints along the
entire PCT at trail junctions, trail heads, water, passes, and other notable
locations. The Waypoints are labeled using trail mileage values. The printed
maps have many of these mileage waypoints indicated on the maps. Shareware
software available from the Internet is required to upload these waypoints
to your GPS.

      The following Internet links are the home pages of GPS shareware
available on the Internet.
      OziExplorer http://www.oziexplorer.com/
      GARtrip http://www.gartrip.de/

      Example Waypoint File: (1 of 22, Campo to Idyllwild) pct0001.wpt
(right click-save as)









------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:06:59 -0800
From: "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net>
Subject: [pct-l] bear bags
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <001d01c3cf42$c73709d0$54b8b2d1@David>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Bear cannisters are required in Yosemite National Park.  They are getting
close to requiring them in other areas also.  The ranger station at Lone
Pine has a list of the bear storage boxes along the PCT in the Sierras.
Sorry don't know the website.   If you are going to stealth camp, you have a
very good chance of getting through without a bear incident.  Pepper spray
helps with the more persistent beasties.  Eric 

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:09:18 -0800
From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears and food 
To: "scott deputy" <oz4130@yahoo.com>, <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <001801c3cf43$19176d30$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1F>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

I think you will be OK because you camp wisely.

I'll only say this. On our 2000 PCT through hike we saw a bear only once (in
Northern California) and it ran when it saw us. On another section through
the High Sierras, I never saw a bear either (was August-Sept). But, you do
hear stories.

However, the bears are there (although at over 8000 feet in June I doubt
it). Bears love food, especially if it is easy to get to. Once they get it,
it is theirs. And if the bears are trained in the National Parks -  they
don't scare and know how to get your food. In the High Sierra (parks), a
bear canister is now required (officially). If you get caught without one,
big fine, I've read. If you camp low where the bears are, camp where
hundreds of others have been, camp in organized camp places, you can have
the experience of bears getting to your food. But, in many of those places
you may find bear boxes, but that means you need to be sure to make the
mileage. I have seen the remains of bear bagging, but it is not recommended.
The park bears know what to do.

Me, I'll sleep with my food, camp high, and take my chances (and probably be
illegal). Worst I've had were mice chewing through the tent. And I wouldn't
worry about the bears - til next time!

Marshall Karon
Portland, OR
m.karon@comcast.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "scott deputy" <oz4130@yahoo.com>
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: [pct-l] bears and food


> I'm in the planning stages for an '04 hike,  I've been watching this 
> list
for a while but haven't seen this question posed.  Bears and Food:
>
> How often do you bear bag you food while thru hiking?  I usually hike 
> a
couple of miles after dinner and don't camp at established sites
>
> I thought that canisters are required on some parts of the trail.  Are
there also places where  boxes are provided.
>
> I'm from the midwest and don't have much bear experience. Just looking 
> to
hear what is commonplace among thru hikers
>
> thanks
>
> dep
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard 
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options: 
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:12:19 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] REAL Tough Horses
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <35.41e7459e.2d238a83@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

While perusing through some old National Geographics, I came an across a 60 
page article in the February, 1929 issue about a man named A.F. Tschiffely
who 
rode two 15 and 16 year old, 5 foot tall Criolla ponies (named Mancha and 
Gato) some 9600 miles from Buenos Aires to Washington D.C.. The article says
he 
undertook the journey to prove the mettle of horses and to find out if the 
fables and legendary stories about Criollas were true. He chose the two
horses from 
a group of 30 captured by the Tehuelche Indians in the interior of
Patagonia, 
broke them and off he went. The journey took 2.5 years and was well 
documented. Sounds like the PCT would be a walk in the park for a Criolla
pony. It says 
the Criolla evolved through the process of the survival of the fittest from 
Arabian horses brought to S. America by the founder of Buenos Aires in 1535
and 
released to the wild
 His friends told him the journey was absurd and impossible. Some things 
never change!

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:21:16 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Advice please
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <70.3699e406.2d238c9c@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

If it were me, I would travel to Crater Lake and hike north as far as I
could 
get in three weeks. But be forewarned: go in August, NOT July unless you
like 
giving blood! Three Sisters and Jefferson Wildernesses are quite spectacular

and the fishing must be pretty good, given all the lakes there.

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:26:11 -0700
From: Edmond Meinfelder <edmond@mydogmeg.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears and food 
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031230190836.0184e538@mail.mydogmeg.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 05:33 PM 12/30/2003 -0800, scott deputy wrote:
>How often do you bear bag you food while thru hiking?  I usually hike a
>couple of miles after dinner and don't camp at established sites.

It's not so much a question of "how often," but where. You're right that 
canisters are required in the High Sierra, though the answer is more 
complex, when passing through King's Canyon National Park, Inyo National 
Forest and Yosemite, you must have a canister or risk a fine. Though Bear 
Boxes are in King's Canyon National Park, you may not wish to camp by them, 
so relying on them may be a mistake.

Avoiding established campgrounds is a good idea, but odds are you'll be 
camping near the trail. As the bears live in the High Sierra and wander 
about areas near the trail, stealth camping isn't reliable, though it's 
prudent to not advertise your presence to the bears.

Canisters are mandatory for a reason; they keep bears from getting your 
food which, in the long run, promotes safety for both hikers and bears. A 
heavy canister weighs 3 pounds which is, for a hungry hiker, a day or two's 
worth of food. Yes, that is a lot of weight, but saving weight at the 
expense of safety may be a moment of convenience exchanged for a lifetime 
of regret. If not you, than possibly someone else and/or the bear.

If the extra weight is truly a bother, consider re-supplying more often. 
There are many places to resupply in the Sierra. Lone Pine, Independence, 
Muir Ranch, VVR, Bishop, Mammoth Lakes and Yosemite.

Make your own decision, but weigh the all the possible consequences of your 
actions. Actions having the gravest consequences deserve the most scrutiny. 
Regardless, saving weight at the expense of safety isn't wise.

Tangent 


------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:40:07 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <182.24fdcba1.2d239107@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Am I missing something here? What, exactly, is wrong with a monthly summary 
of gear tests as long as it's not commercial in nature. Seem to me it would
be 
a far better source of IMPARTIAL info on backpacking gear than advice give
by 
somebody who is partial to his/her own gear. And what's so hard about just 
hitting the delete button if you don't want to possibly see your choice of
gear 
compared IMPARTIALLY to others. As for purity, seems to me most people view
it 
as a not so good thing when somebody says I hiked every step of the REAL PCT

and you didn't
 I reiterate. Non commercial and impartial gear testing is okay by me. 
Personally, being quite experienced, I can do without posts that are
obviously not 
impartial when suggesting through inference that I should have bought what
they 
got, usually of the ultralight variety
   
   

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:01:52 -0800
From: Datto <datto@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] favorite piece of gear
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <200312310301.hBV31qK9035837@mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> I was wrong on the price..they have been rolled back
>> to 49 bucks..

Here's the Timex Helix Alt/Baro/Temp watch in a different color from Campmor
for $59.97:

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=277384
82&prmenbr=226

Datto



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:17:11 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears and food
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <46.4415ea3c.2d2399b7@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I'd like to see some statistics please, on just how well bear cans are 
working before just doing as I am told. And just how well rangers are
Insuring that 
the canisters are being used efficiently instead of just being carried as a 
sort of mother -may -I item. You can force a hiker to take one but you can't
be 
there every minute to ensure every scrap of food and all toiletries are in
the 
can at ALL times when not in actual use. THAT is why they won't work. Time 
will tell, won't it. Meanwhile, bears will go on not being afraid of people
in 
our National Parks, and THAT is the root of the problem. But hey, its much 
cheaper to just make up a regulation

------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:53:46 -0500
From: "Robert Ellinwood" <rellinwood@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
To: "'Edmond Meinfelder'" <edmond@mydogmeg.net>,	"'Pct-L'"
	<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000401c3cf51$b1c675e0$157b4d0c@ellinwood>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Regarding Gear Test Notifications:

>" I have to agree STRONGLY with Marge on this." - Steve Jackson " I 
>also agree with Marge and Jackson." -  Tangent

I have to add my voice in agreement here.  Simply go over to Backpacking
Light if you want the test results.  The beauty of this list is its pure
focus (mostly) on the PCT.  I'd like that not to gradually be watered down.

Bob Ellinwood

------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:53:07 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] How to handle a bear
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <108.2a569d34.2d23a223@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I've seen well over a hundred bears on my outings. Only once has a bear 
entered my camp. On that occasion, he snuck up on me while I was pitching my
tent. 
I had not yet had time to secure my food. He got within 10 feet of it before
I 
saw him (he came up from behind). When I saw him my reaction was immediate.
I 
bluff charged him cursing loudly. He stopped in his tracks and gave me a 
curious look. Then I picked up a large branch and SMASHED it on a tree trunk
just 
as hard as I could, sending large chunks flying everywhere. All the while I 
was yelling at him, giving him direct eye contact, saying I was going to
bust a 
branch just like that over his frigging nose if he tried to get my food.  He

believed me and left. I had dinner, crawled into my tent and fell asleep
almost 
immediately knowing beyond a doubt that he wouldn't be back. He went and 
picked on somebody else that he wasn't afraid of, probably some wussy guy
who hung 
his food and thought that banging pots was the answer. Give a bully an inch 
and they'll take a mile

------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:01:14 -0500
From: "Robert Ellinwood" <rellinwood@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] favorite piece of gear
To: "'Randy Forsland'" <randy_forsland@hotmail.com>,
	<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000801c3cf52$bc69bce0$157b4d0c@ellinwood>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

> Has a greta alarm..really annoying...cannot possibly sleep thru
it..;-)

I dunno... Sounds like fun to me!




------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:24:41 -0800
From: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] How to handle a bear
To: <CMountainDave@aol.com>, <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c3cf56$02b8abe0$1501010a@sd.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

I did the same thing on the JMT at Center Basin. We returned from the river
to find a bear munching in camp. (It wasn't my food - mine was in a bear
can.) It took a rock to his head to get him to move, 10 yards away, and big
Mr. Fuzzy hid behind a skinny tree. I'm not that dumb. Realizing he planned
on sticking around, and not wanting to deal with him all night, I grabbed a
handful of stones and charged him, screaming like a banshee. He looked at
him with that same teddy bear look and then ran. I chased him what seemed
like half way to Forester Pass before I lost sight of him. He never did come
back.

AsABat
Don't try this at home.


> bluff charged him cursing loudly. He stopped in his tracks and gave me 
> a curious look.


------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:09:19 EST
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] GIS layer for PCT
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <122.29fe426a.2d23b3ff@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Why make things harder then they need to be?

I found that the PCT was a very easy trail to follow, as is, using the 
databook, and guidebooks with included maps, checking several times a day
for water, 
progress, at unsigned trail junctions or  road crossings and in snow
country.

To each their own, but fussing over GIS maps or GPS waypoints would only 
frustrate me.

Sly


------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:12:42 EST
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] GIS layer for PCT
To: david_tibor@yahoo.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <7f.4100f270.2d23b4ca@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 12/30/2003 2:31:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
david_tibor@yahoo.com writes:

> This wouldn't be for use on the trail, just for
> planning purposes and/or just looking pretty on the
> wall.
> 

Sorry, missed this part, sure it would look good on a wall, but a map has 
never helped me for planning purposes.

Try www.pctplanner.com for that.

YMMV

Sly

------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:19:05 -0800
From: "Jon Lovejoy" <jon@lovejoyart.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000801c3cf65$fde5acc0$0301a8c0@JonDesktop>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"


[A heavy canister weighs 3 pounds which is a day or two's worth of
food.]

I did a long section hike this year from the Pink Motel to Mt. Whitney,
and this was my reasoning for carrying a bear can the whole way. If you
and I both start off carrying 40 pounds and I add a bear can, by day two
you're down to 37 pounds and I'm down to 40.

It may weigh as much as a day's food, but it only matters that first
day. My pack just lightened a day later than everybody else's. I was
solo hiking and it was worth it to know that no varmints, large or
small, were going to get my food. Also, by carrying it from the start I
didn't have to bitch & moan & totally rethink my pack at Kennedy Meadows
when it showed up with my resupply.

Molasses


------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:58:28 -0800
From: PCT-L Admin <pct-l-adms@backcountry.net>
Subject: RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20031230144736.08171c20@fastpack.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 01:59 PM 12/30/03, Steve Jackson wrote:
>I think this is something the list administrator should decide (maybe he
>already has?) and discuss with you.

Once a month is not going to bother anyone, and the list charter allows 
commercial posts relating to the PCT "within reason" and I think that once 
a month is within reason.

Certainly more germane and less annoying that much of what Mad Monte posts 
<grin>...





------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:15:29 EST
From: Pegasus12125@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] 200 mile backpack
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <aa.26a6274a.2d235301@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I am looking for advice on a section of the PCT I might do in a four-week 
period with my 17 year old son this coming summer.    We have done a lot of 
hiking in the East, including Vermont's Long Trail in 2001.

We've never hiked or backpacked in the West and would welcome suggestions on

a 200 mile section that would not be terrifically difficult or terrfically 
crowded in July 2004, and would be appropriate for a 54 year-old guy is 
reasonably good--but not spectacularly good shape--with no high elevation
experience.

For reference, we covered 10-12 miles per day on the Long Trail.

Thank you for your advice!

Larry

------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:07:54 -0800
From: Hiker <hiker@godlikebuthumble.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20031230230515.03a02640@fastpack.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 10:19 PM 12/30/03, Jon Lovejoy wrote:
>  Also, by carrying it from the start I
>didn't have to bitch & moan & totally rethink my pack at Kennedy Meadows
>when it showed up with my resupply.

Why not pick up a couple of rocks and carry them too?

Makes about as much sense a carrying a bear can all that way. They killed 
the ONE problem bear that lived in that whole stretch (near Little Jimmy,) 
and it was a problem from the trash cans and day hikers, NOT canister-less 
thru hikers.



------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 00:38:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Ilja Friedel <ilja@cs.caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
To: CMountainDave@aol.com
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	
<Pine.LNX.4.44.0312310034400.20621-100000@performance.cs.caltech.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi,

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 CMountainDave@aol.com wrote:

> Am I missing something here? What, exactly, is wrong with a monthly
summary 
> of gear tests as long as it's not commercial in nature.

It has nothing to do with the PCT.

> Seem to me it would be a far better source of IMPARTIAL info on
> backpacking gear than advice give by somebody who is partial to his/her
> own gear.

Sure, but it has nothing to do with the PCT. 

> I reiterate. 

It has nothing to do with the PCT.

The original poster asked in all the lists on the server if he could post 
his monthly posting. I'm sure he is also going to post it in 
rec.backcountry, alt.rec.hiking and otherwise. I don't know why he is 
pushing so hard, but I don't like it.

Ilja.


------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 04:57:34 EST
From: DAVCATDAV@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <3c.39864036.2d23f78e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Let's see...It's January...that means...yes...no, not 
yet...maybe...well...yes...yes indeed...YIPPEE...IT'S TIME FOR BEAR
CANNISTER FLAMING...oh boy!


I offer my own thoughts...not that I'm any wiser than anyone else...it's
just 
that Christmas was rather good and...well...without a little abuse I start
to 
feel...out of sorts.

Okay say you''ve a thousand bears...picture them out there...all in a 
group...moo, moo, moo.  No wait...that's in Southern Oregon...and they were
cows.

Okay, say you've a thousand bears...picture them out there in the 
Sierras...growl...growl...growl.  We want food...growl...growl.  Ten
thousand hikers pass 
by...picture them out there...wheresthegorp...wheresthegorp...wheresthegorp.

Nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine pass by in complete safety.  They

are now convinced that whatever method they use to keep Ursus (I say Ursus 
instead of bear merely to impress you all with my 
eridition...eradition...erid...big word knowledge) at bay is 100% effective.
Meanwhile hiker number 10,000 
has his tent crashed into.

There are not an inconsiderable number of people who would snuggest that if 
everyone carried a bear cannister where the Feds ask people to, that hiker 
number 10,000 would have a more pleasant experience.  I think the truth is
you 
could walk naked into the wilderness smothered with honey screaming damn the
bear 
bag full speed ahead and likely you'd be fine (if you find this mental image

appealing, well, 50ish WM, please contact off line.)  The idea is to avoid a

situation that occurs only rarely in any event.  And (watch out Jordanaire's

I'm about to curse in your church) it is only...only..3 pounds.

------------------------------

Message: 30
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 03:00:09 -0800
From: "Gray" <gray_hiker@mindpoison.org>
Subject: RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
To: "'Pct-L'" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <001701c3cf8d$4227d170$0500a8c0@VONNEGUT>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

And I have to strongly disagree.

We already have ultralight gear manufacturers who post when they have
new products, and when anyone mentions anything that can be construed as
wanting something they produce.

I'd love to hear from people who actually test gear, what they think of
it, how it performs.

I think it would be sad to not have this. And if he is not allowed to
post their reviews, then I think we should stop all the people who post
about their new and improved chunk of silnylon, aka "tarp tents", as
well.

Gray

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Robert
Ellinwood
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 7:54 PM
To: 'Edmond Meinfelder'; 'Pct-L'
Subject: RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications

Regarding Gear Test Notifications:

>" I have to agree STRONGLY with Marge on this." - Steve Jackson
>" I also agree with Marge and Jackson." -  Tangent

I have to add my voice in agreement here.  Simply go over to Backpacking
Light if you want the test results.  The beauty of this list is its pure
focus (mostly) on the PCT.  I'd like that not to gradually be watered
down.

Bob Ellinwood



------------------------------

Message: 31
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 03:05:22 -0800
From: "Gray" <gray_hiker@mindpoison.org>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food
To: "'Hiker'" <hiker@godlikebuthumble.com>, <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <001a01c3cf8d$fc61ebc0$0500a8c0@VONNEGUT>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Then don't use one.

And don't bitch when you are fined for not using one.

Let's see... rocks: useless weight
Bear can: useful weight.

Not a fair comparison. 

Obviously, they thought it was something that was useful, else, they
would have stopped carrying it. 

Sure, I think that if **everyone** camped smart, that this would be a
non-issue. However, everyone *is not* going to camp smart. And the rest
of us have to deal with the fact that bears can, and will, attempt to
get to our food. It makes sense, to me, to have a device that they
simply can't get into. If it doesn't make sense to you, then don't carry
one. But don't try to convince others that they shouldn't as well.

Gray

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Hiker
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:08 PM
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: RE: [pct-l] bears & food

At 10:19 PM 12/30/03, Jon Lovejoy wrote:
>  Also, by carrying it from the start I
>didn't have to bitch & moan & totally rethink my pack at Kennedy
Meadows
>when it showed up with my resupply.

Why not pick up a couple of rocks and carry them too?

Makes about as much sense a carrying a bear can all that way. They
killed 
the ONE problem bear that lived in that whole stretch (near Little
Jimmy,) 
and it was a problem from the trash cans and day hikers, NOT
canister-less 
thru hikers.


_______________________________________________
pct-l mailing list
pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
unsubscribe or change options:
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l



------------------------------

Message: 32
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 05:30:05 -0800 (PST)
From: scott deputy <oz4130@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] bears and food 
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20031231133005.73990.qmail@web60505.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Glad I could start a flame war.I do appreciate all of the responses. 
while its its on the table I have a couple more questions 
 
Working off of the premise that I will carry one only when there is a high
risk of fine,  does it make more sense to rent or to buy and mail myself
one. 
 
outside the places that are listed in earlier emails as bear cans required
what is the common practice by people on this list 
 
thanks 
dep 
 
 


---------------------------------
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Subject: Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
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In a message dated 12/31/2003 6:00:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
gray_hiker@mindpoison.org writes:

> I'd love to hear from people who actually test gear, what they think of
> it, how it performs.
> 

It's easy enough to join the BGT list.  

IMO, one problem I have with a monthly report is the many possible
responses. 
 Then the pct-l may turn into a satellite list of BGT.  That's totally 
different then members here offering suggestions or independent
manufacturers 
occasionally posting about a new product.

Sly

------------------------------

Message: 33
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:10:28 EST
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <1c7.1398372d.2d2440e4@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Hasn't it been demonstrated before that a thru-hiker can get past the
problem 
areas by camping in areas with bear boxes and resorts.

If I remember correctly the only "regulated" area is from Tully Hole to 
Donahue Pass and that can be done in a day.

I suppose if you intended on doing short days through the High Sierra one
may 
be prudent, but not necessary.

Sly

------------------------------

Message: 34
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:20:11 EST
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <9.1f8a9d09.2d24432b@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 12/31/2003 10:11:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
Slyatpct@aol.com writes:

> I suppose if you intended on doing short days through the High Sierra one 
> may 
> be prudent, but not necessary.
> 

LOL... a little muddled thinking here.  I meant to say not necessarily 
necessary!   

Anyway, I'm pretty sure unless things have changed, I was able to pass 
through without breaking the rules except for possibly dayhiking through the

regulated area without a cannister.

Sly

------------------------------

Message: 35
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 07:20:56 -0800
From: "Randy Forsland" <randy_forsland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <LAW10-OE32DHWsUEDF70001b5c2@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Yes, and even within Yosemite NP, bear canisters are only required in
certain areas. Every year I hear that they are mandatory throughout the park
that just  is not true. Here is a blurb from www.nps.gov:

Backcountry
The National Park Service strongly encourages backpackers to carry and use
bear-resistant food storage canisters. Bear canisters are required at High
Sierra Camps and above 9,600 feet unless food storage lockers are being
used. These portable containers are the most effective way for backpackers
to store food in wilderness areas. All other techniques are considered only
delay tactics, as bears are cleverly able to defeat most other backcountry
food storage methods-- bears are routinely obtaining properly hung food.
Each plastic canister weighs less than 3 pounds, fits in a full-sized
backpack, and is capable of holding up to 3 to 5 days' worth of food for one
person. Bear canisters are available for rent for $5 each per trip at
wilderness permit stations and are available for purchase from the Yosemite
Association.

And in the Kings Canyon, Inyo areas, they are not mandatory on the PCT
either...only on the spur trails leading out to civilization.

And if you are really worried about getting a ticket from an overzealous
ranger, just do what  do..I carry a second wilderness permit made out to Tom
Reynolds...just give them that and be on your way ;-)

Redwood

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <Slyatpct@aol.com>
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food


> Hasn't it been demonstrated before that a thru-hiker can get past the
problem
> areas by camping in areas with bear boxes and resorts.
>
> If I remember correctly the only "regulated" area is from Tully Hole to
> Donahue Pass and that can be done in a day.
>
> I suppose if you intended on doing short days through the High Sierra one
may
> be prudent, but not necessary.
>
> Sly
> _______________________________________________
>

------------------------------

Message: 36
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:28:22 EST
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: randy_forsland@hotmail.com, pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <d9.7925a2.2d244516@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 12/31/2003 10:21:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
randy_forsland@hotmail.com writes:

> I carry a second wilderness permit made out to Tom
> Reynolds...just give them that and be on your way ;-)
> 

LOL...  I don't think Tom has been back since the last brouhaha.  At that 
point he threatened make it law and have all PCT thru-hikers arrested if
they 
didn't carry cannisters.

I will agree cannisters may prudent and/or necessary for slow, section or 
typical JMT hikers.

Sly

------------------------------

Message: 37
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 07:50:32 -0800 (PST)
From: larry hillberg <walkinglarry@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20031231155032.44827.qmail@web40504.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


> Regarding Gear Test Notifications:
> 

How can one email per month be a problem?  Some
will find it useful, so let them enjoy it as you
delete yours.

There have already been enough emails on this
subject to equal a years worth of the originals.

Maybe this will be the last.

Larry H

__________________________________
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Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003

------------------------------

Message: 38
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:09:46 EST
From: Bighummel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <9e.7ab6d7.2d245cda@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Don't carry a bear canister.  Carry an aluminum wrist rocket slingshot, 
stealth camp and collect several walnut-sized rocks near the slingshot
before you 
go to bed.  The wrist rocket can take the bark off of a Ponderosa pine from
30 
yards, it will hurt the bear but not kill him.

One strategy, not legal but fun.

Greg

------------------------------

Message: 39
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:40:27 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: FW: [pct-l] Gear Test Notifications
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <1e4.16937150.2d24640b@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


In a message dated 12/31/03 12:38:23 AM, ilja@cs.caltech.edu writes:

<< It has nothing to do with the PCT. >>
 Huh? By that reasoning ANY post that deals with backpacking gear has
nothing 
to do with the PCT. Frankly, I can't think of a more pertinent subject than 
to get unbiased opinions on how different gear compares to one another.
After 
all you are going to be carrying it a loonng ways and spending lots of money
 How do you choose gear? By listening to some sales person in a sporting
good 
store or by relying on friends who aren't about to admit that the $300 
dollars they spent on a sleeping bag or pack was money that could have been
spent on 
something cheaper and just as good 

------------------------------

Message: 40
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:43:59 -0800
From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <004701c3cfc5$ac20bf00$6401a8c0@BOB>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Or just serve to get his undivided attention......That's why experienced
outdoorsmen don't shoot at bears unless they want to kill them. Shoot a
black bear - odds are 50/50 it will run away or charge. Shoot a grizzly -
odds are 0/100 it will  run away or charge and only one of you will be alive
when it's over.

Wandering Bob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Bighummel@aol.com>
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bears & food


> Don't carry a bear canister.  Carry an aluminum wrist rocket slingshot,
> stealth camp and collect several walnut-sized rocks near the slingshot
before you
> go to bed.  The wrist rocket can take the bark off of a Ponderosa pine
from 30
> yards, it will hurt the bear but not kill him.
>
> One strategy, not legal but fun.
>
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>



------------------------------

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End of pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24
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