[pct-l] Mt Whitney

[calliger at infolane.com (Richard)]

I have run most of the way up and down in my Nikes.
(with some walk breaks on the 99 switchbacks..but if there
is snow u can kicksteps up the snow a **LOT** easier than
doing the switchbacks,,u will need boots for that however,
but it is fun and much faster--also on the way down if
you are experienced you can glissade down about 3000 feet!)

The trail:

It's rock and dirt...u can go in sandles if you want..
the differences in the rock/dirt locations are now not that significant
as the rock is covered with a layer of sandy granite on the
99 switchbacks and the dirt from Portal is very hardpacked!


Richard

At 01:40 PM 6/3/03 -0700, Jane E Overton wrote:
>There have been many helpful responses to my questions.  Thank you very
much.  I am still studying out the trip.  Thats part of the fun, after all.
I have heard that boots with a steel shank are the only way to go since the
trail on Mr. Whitney is all rock.  Have also read in "Beyond Backpacking,"
that lightweight is better,  Any comments?
>Jane
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
>1. Sign at Joshua Springs (Lonetrail@aol.com)
>2. Re: Sign at Joshua Springs (JD Schaefer)
>3. Re: Mt. Whitney (Richard)
>4. Apache Springs Camp site (maurer@earthlink.net)
>5. Re: SNOW CREEK (Carl Siechert)
>6. Apache Springs Camp site (Bill Irey)
>7. Re: SNOW CREEK (matt maxon)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:20:33 EDT
>From: Lonetrail@aol.com
>Subject: [pct-l] Sign at Joshua Springs
>To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Message-ID: <11c.22e2b1ff.2c0d43d1@aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>JD
>
>Well, JD sorry it took me so long to answer your comments about my post on 
>Joshua Springs. I had to do some research.
>
>First let me explain why I am concerns about the sign posted by BLM at Joshua 
>Springs which reads "WATER NOT SAFE FOR DRINKING"
>
>My son and I were backpacking from Walker Pass to Whitney. The temperature 
>was 115 degrees. We arranged to meet at 12 noon to have lunch together. He is 
>much younger then I and usually several miles ahead. At lunch he was nearly
out 
>of water. We arranged to meet again at Joshua Springs four miles ahead. When I 
>arrived at Joshua Springs he left a note after he read the sign saying "WATER 
>IS UNSAFE FOR DRINKING" The note read, "Dad water unsafe for drinking will go 
>to next water hole about 15 miles ahead." Remember temperature is 115 
>degrees. I knew I would find him straddled across the trail. I walked the
1/4 mile 
>down to spring and filled up two quarts of water. I found my son four miles
from 
>Joshua Springs as I suspected collapsed across the trail. His first words 
>were "Dad I'm dying." I was able to give him (The unsafe water) which saved
his 
>life. We double back to Joshua Springs and spend the might there, loader 
>ourselves up with the "Unsafe Water" 
>In your statement you wrote ."Let's keep this to the Trail and leave our 
>resentments out of it" I believe I am right on the trail. If you want to
call it 
>resentment find. I am trying to save some backpacker's life. Several other 
>backpackers has also passed the springs after reading the Illegal sign and had 
>similar problems.
>
>Now after some research I can now back up my claim that the sign should not 
>be there. It is illegal and should be taken down. I wrote to BLM and got this 
>response. Please read the email from BLM.
>
>Email from BLM
>
>The sign should say that the water is not tested for safe drinking which
>would require testing at least quarterly for various substances and we are
>not currently set up for such testing. (A variety of Federal and State
>regulations apply related to water.) Also, the springs at Chimney Creek
>Campground and Joshua Tree Spring may not be safe for drinking because they
>exceed maximum contaminant levels (MCL) for naturally occurring URANIUM.
>The MCL for uranium is 20 picocuries per liter (pCi/l) and the water for
>Chimney Creek usually tests at about 50 pCi/l. Joshua Tree Spring is
>usually just above the MCL for uranium. Therefore, the water is not
>recommended for drinking or food preparation. On the other hand, hikers on
>the PCT are often in desperate need of water and these two sources present
>a minimum hazard for casual use since PCT hikers treat or filter their own
>water. (Understand, of course, that filtering or treating removes most
>contaminants, but not uranium.) Let me know if you need additional
>information: Michael Ayers, 661-391-6120. 
>Michael Ayers/CASO/CA/BLM/DOI@BLM 
>
>
>My email to BLM
>
>I am trying to get information on why at Joshua Tree Springs located at
>mile marker 569.3 along the Pacific Crest Trail located north of Walker Pass 
>has
>a sign water is unsafe for drinking. The same with Chimney Creek Camp Ground. 
>I
>understand that Indians, early Settler and Outfitters used the water for
>hundreds of years.
>
>Email from JD
>
>Lonetrail
>
>If you make political and/or snide comments "[Thanks to Erin Brokovich 
>thedeep pocket environmentalist.)", you should back it up with facts or
many of 
>your future statements could have less of a positive impact.Let's keep this to 
>the Trail and leave our resentments out of it.
>JD-----
>
>Original email to Richard
>
>Richard>> If you are speaking about Grizzly Bill the caretaker at Chimney 
>Creek take> anything he says with a grain of salt. I have stopped there
several 
>times and> find Grizzly Bill to be a typical back country character, sometime 
>funny. sometime bullish He spends a lot of time alone and set in his ways but 
>has a kind heart and will go out of his way to help you. Talk about his 
>pickup or his dogs. Buy some cold pop from him since the water is supposed
to be 
>poison. (Thanks to Erin Brokovich the deep pocket environmentalist.) He loves 
>the Internet and is most likely reading these posts. So Hi Bill.
>lonetrail
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:41:04 -0700
>From: "JD Schaefer" 
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sign at Joshua Springs
>To: , 
>
>Message-ID: <0afa01c32968$d0cc66a0$6501a8c0@attbi.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>A harrowing tale to be sure. Your son sounds like mine, a faster hiker but
>caring enough to leave a note. I'm glad it all worked out.
>
>While I don't doubt the truthfulness of the sources you cite, I'm confused
>what the incorrectly worded sign from a Federal agency (BLM) had to do with
>Erin Brockovich or any other "deep pocket environmentalist".
>
>Best wishes,
>JD
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: 
>To: 
>
>Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:20 PM
>Subject: [pct-l] Sign at Joshua Springs
>
>
>> JD
>>
>> Well, JD sorry it took me so long to answer your comments about my post on
>> Joshua Springs. I had to do some research.
>>
>> First let me explain why I am concerns about the sign posted by BLM at
>Joshua
>> Springs which reads "WATER NOT SAFE FOR DRINKING"
>>
>> My son and I were backpacking from Walker Pass to Whitney. The temperature
>> was 115 degrees. We arranged to meet at 12 noon to have lunch together. He
>is
>> much younger then I and usually several miles ahead. At lunch he was
>nearly out
>> of water. We arranged to meet again at Joshua Springs four miles ahead.
>When I
>> arrived at Joshua Springs he left a note after he read the sign saying
>"WATER
>> IS UNSAFE FOR DRINKING" The note read, "Dad water unsafe for drinking will
>go
>> to next water hole about 15 miles ahead." Remember temperature is 115
>> degrees. I knew I would find him straddled across the trail. I walked the
>1/4 mile
>> down to spring and filled up two quarts of water. I found my son four
>miles from
>> Joshua Springs as I suspected collapsed across the trail. His first words
>> were "Dad I'm dying." I was able to give him (The unsafe water) which
>saved his
>> life. We double back to Joshua Springs and spend the might there, loader
>> ourselves up with the "Unsafe Water"
>> In your statement you wrote ."Let's keep this to the Trail and leave our
>> resentments out of it" I believe I am right on the trail. If you want to
>call it
>> resentment find. I am trying to save some backpacker's life. Several other
>> backpackers has also passed the springs after reading the Illegal sign and
>had
>> similar problems.
>>
>> Now after some research I can now back up my claim that the sign should
>not
>> be there. It is illegal and should be taken down. I wrote to BLM and got
>this
>> response. Please read the email from BLM.
>>
>> Email from BLM
>>
>> The sign should say that the water is not tested for safe drinking which
>> would require testing at least quarterly for various substances and we are
>> not currently set up for such testing. (A variety of Federal and State
>> regulations apply related to water.) Also, the springs at Chimney Creek
>> Campground and Joshua Tree Spring may not be safe for drinking because
>they
>> exceed maximum contaminant levels (MCL) for naturally occurring URANIUM.
>> The MCL for uranium is 20 picocuries per liter (pCi/l) and the water for
>> Chimney Creek usually tests at about 50 pCi/l. Joshua Tree Spring is
>> usually just above the MCL for uranium. Therefore, the water is not
>> recommended for drinking or food preparation. On the other hand, hikers on
>> the PCT are often in desperate need of water and these two sources present
>> a minimum hazard for casual use since PCT hikers treat or filter their own
>> water. (Understand, of course, that filtering or treating removes most
>> contaminants, but not uranium.) Let me know if you need additional
>> information: Michael Ayers, 661-391-6120.
>> Michael Ayers/CASO/CA/BLM/DOI@BLM
>>
>>
>> My email to BLM
>>
>> I am trying to get information on why at Joshua Tree Springs located at
>> mile marker 569.3 along the Pacific Crest Trail located north of Walker
>Pass
>> has
>> a sign water is unsafe for drinking. The same with Chimney Creek Camp
>Ground.
>> I
>> understand that Indians, early Settler and Outfitters used the water for
>> hundreds of years.
>>
>> Email from JD
>>
>> Lonetrail
>>
>> If you make political and/or snide comments "[Thanks to Erin Brokovich
>> thedeep pocket environmentalist.)", you should back it up with facts or
>many of
>> your future statements could have less of a positive impact.Let's keep
>this to
>> the Trail and leave our resentments out of it.
>> JD-----
>>
>> Original email to Richard
>>
>> Richard>> If you are speaking about Grizzly Bill the caretaker at
>Chimney
>> Creek take> anything he says with a grain of salt. I have stopped there
>several
>> times and> find Grizzly Bill to be a typical back country character,
>sometime
>> funny. sometime bullish He spends a lot of time alone and set in his ways
>but
>> has a kind heart and will go out of his way to help you. Talk about his
>> pickup or his dogs. Buy some cold pop from him since the water is supposed
>to be
>> poison. (Thanks to Erin Brokovich the deep pocket environmentalist.) He
>loves
>> the Internet and is most likely reading these posts. So Hi Bill.
>> lonetrail
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> pct-l mailing list
>> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:07:17 -0700
>From: Richard 
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mt. Whitney
>To: Christine Kudija , "Jane E Overton"
>, 
>
>Message-ID: <2.2.32.20030603010717.00bd8a80@postal.infolane.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>You most likely will acclimate quite quickly to "altitudes above, say,
>9,000' "..
>and since you are not going to have an extended stay above 10,000
>feet there is naught to worry about for 99% of the people who go
>there...any symptoms of high altitude sickness (which you should
>read up on FYI) will not occur, typically, in the few hours you
>are at alttitude. Appetite changes usually take 4-5 days AT ALTITUDE to occur
>and you will be totally hungary for the mere day you are there...
>
>Please do not be fearful of the negative implicaitons of those 
>comments as they truely don't pertain to someone hiking to the 
>top of Whitney and going back down in a few hours or so...most sicknesses
>need several days for most people to occur (at altitude above 10,000-
>12,000) feet and at most if you stay overnight @ the high camp (about 12,000)
>feet you will feel short of breath, a little nausa perhaps but that
>is about it... I have spent entire summers above 10,000 and after a
>few days most people acclimate very easily. For 4 days just take what
>you like to eat, is easy to prepare as per my other post, and is not too
>heavy. But,additionally, most of your weight will be carried to trail
>camp and u leave your tent and heavy bag there.
>
>Most people fare well..if you feel a lot of gurgling in your chest or
>extreme lightheaded,severe headachey, drink several liters of water..at
>leaast 2,
>and wait 20-30 minutes. Maybe take 2-3 aspirin. If those 
>symptoms worsen head down to lower altitude
>just about immediately...the symptoms will magically dissapear around
>8000-9000 feet in an hour. U can then rest there for a day and try again,
>stopping
>for half a day at 10,500 and proceed leisurely up to 12000 and camp; then the
>summit the next day.
>
>As far as winds and delta temps, dont worry...during Aug it is very 
>very much late spring/ early summer above 9000', in 25 years of hanging 
>around Whitney area it does not fluctuate that much in Aug...but be prepared
>for 40's F.
>You have more to worry about with the bears at the Portal than alititude
>loss of appetite, or wind or whatever!
>
>Check out my web site for a great pic (IMHO) http://www.infolane.com/calliger
>
>If you want to discuss it more, I am considered somewhat of an expert after
>several months of mountaineering schools and 25+ years of accident/event free
>mountaineering of quite a few peaks (although I did fracture my foot in my
>driveway at home!!)
>in the ice..but that don't count!!... please write me off-line.
>
>
>Richard
>
>Ps-
>
>There are bold mountaineers, and there are old mountaineers.
>
>There are few,if any, old, bold mountaineers.
>
>PPS-
>
>An expert is defined as one who knows his and others limitations
>and usually exceeds them-- cautiously!1 ...
>
>
>
>
>
>At 10:02 AM 6/2/03 -0700, Christine Kudija wrote:
>>Jane,
>>
>>A couple of questions for you: (1) are you accustomed to altitudes above,
>>say, 9,000'/~3000m? Appetite changes at elevation, especially if going to
>>high elevations is not something you usually do. (2) are you accustomed
>>to an alpine environment, where temperatures and winds can fluctuate
>>substantially, depending on where you are on the mountain?
>>
>>I'll have some suggestions after you reply....also, are you asking only
>>about food, or about gear as well?
>>
>>Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija
>>
>>"Never measure the height of a mountain, until you have reached the top.
>>Then you will see how low it was." Dag Hammarskjold
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Jane E Overton" 
>>To: 
>
>>Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:52 AM
>>Subject: [pct-l] Mt. Whitney
>>
>>
>>| I am climbing Mt. Whitney in August (permit in hand). I have a number of
>>books, but not one has a sensible list of supples for the climb. Does
>>anyone have a link, where I could hust get the grocery list fot a four day
>>hike. I am not a picky eater.
>>| _______________________________________________
>>| pct-l mailing list
>>| pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>>| http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>pct-l mailing list
>>pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>>http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:37:08 -0700
>From: maurer@earthlink.net
>Subject: [pct-l] Apache Springs Camp site
>To: "pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net" 
>
>Message-ID: <3EDC09D4.C0A88FF5@earthlink.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Hi all,
>
>I'm taking off this Thursday north from Hwy 74, and have heard or read
>from a couple of sources that apparently there is a small place to camp
>somewhere down the side trail towards Apache Springs. There's even a
>picture in "Along the PCT" by Karen Berger with the caption "view of
>Palm Springs from Apache Springs Camp".
>
>Any hard data on this? If the camp exists and if there's any water
>running it would make a mighty sweet first night's resting place. As it
>stands I'm planning to take the side trip to Cedar Springs (on purpose -
>I'd like to have a look), tank up with 5+liters and dry camp around
>Fobes/Apache someplace. Any new data about this possible camp spot or
>Apache water flow would be appreciated
>
>--
>Mike Maurer
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:11:26 -0700
>From: "Carl Siechert" 
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] SNOW CREEK
>To: 
>
>Message-ID: 
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>When we hiked in '77, the temporary route followed roads that were even
>longer than the proposed trail. We looked at the topos, trying to decide
>between the temporary route and attempting to follow the partially built
>permanent route. Being the smart fellows that we were, we opted instead to
>take a more direct route: straight down. With the exception of a couple of
>dropoffs that we had to skirt around, it is possible. But I don't recommend
>it!
>
>
>> Fuller Ridge to Snow Creek 17.2 miles should have been 13 miles!
>> WHAT'S UP with this trail ? got dizzy walking round and around
>> and..........
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:11:42 -0700
>From: "Bill Irey" 
>Subject: [pct-l] Apache Springs Camp site
>To: "PCT-L Forum" 
>
>Message-ID: <000601c32986$3e44f950$5ccb4b43@Bill>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>Mike,
>
>Last year I got water at Apache Springs. There was room for a few hikers
there. The water is to the NW about 20-30 yards. There is a plank of wood
which retains the water causing a small pool behind it. I believe there was
a recent water report that said there was a trickle of water there. This
"should" be enough to get what you need...maybe. The camp sites were not
great by any means but would do for a night. It is a steep decent to the
springs from the PCT.
>
>Geezer Bill
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:57:04 -0700
>From: "matt maxon" 
>Subject: [pct-l] Re: SNOW CREEK
>To: 
>
>Message-ID: <001201c329e0$669108e0$6501a8c0@putterburbank>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Don
>There are many reasons for the long grade, 1st off the "standard" for trail
>construction is a 5% grade with short portions not to exceed 15%, the
>original 8 miles was about 17.75% way too steep even for a permitted "steep"
>portion, 13 miles would be 10.93% quite steep for 13 miles, the current 17.2
>miles is 8.26% which I think is a good compromise between excessive
>steepness and length, the 5% would make this Segment 28.09090909 miles long.
>
>The reason for these standards are safety, maintenance, and environmental.
>For the trail to be suitable for ALL intended users IE: hikers and
>equestrians, 13 miles of 11% grade, and would lead to lots of erosion.
>Erosion is a major problem with steep trails and has serious enviromental,
>safety, and maintenance issues associated with it.
>
>I agree lots of switchbacks can be tiresome, but having worked on laying out
>a few trails over the years, I can only say it's difficult to know the
>undoubtably good reasons this segment is the way it is, my guess is,
>Enviroment, Time & Money.
>
>Perhaps it would help if we all where to contact our representatives in
>government and urge them to support increased funding for this important
>enviromental, social, physical, & mental health resource we are blessed
>with!
>
>Matt Maxon
>
>> From: "Don Line" 
>> Subject: [pct-l] SNOW CREEK
>> To: 
>
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> Fuller Ridge to Snow Creek 17.2 miles should have been 13 miles!
>> WHAT'S UP with this trail ? got dizzy walking round and around
>> and..........
>>
>> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>
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