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[pct-l] Re: Ice Axe Experience question

I took both an ice ax and crampons on 2 PCT trips, one this year and the other last year, on the segment from Steven's Pass, WA, to Manning Park, Canada.  In my opinion, the ice ax was much more useful.  On slanted snow fields, the handle was useful in "sticking and stepping", and my hiking partner had to use the ax part to arrest a slide.  On the other hand, I've read that crampons can be dangerous unless you're experienced, because if you should slip while wearing them on an inclined snow field, they can anchor your feet so firmly in the snow that you can end up literally cartwheeling, going head over heels, down the slope.  Of course, glacier hiking is a
whole different story, and crampons are usually a necessity there, but for the PCT, I'd take the ax before I'd take crampons.

I'm sure there are other opinions from those more experienced than me using these items, but that's my 2 cents.  -- Dave

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: MSR Dromlite bags (Bob)
>    2. Re: MSR Dromlite bags (Cathy)
>    3. Re: MSR Dromlite bags (Bob Bankhead)
>    4. Re: Boots (Sharon & Chuck Chelin)
>    5. Re: MSR Dromlite bags (Cathy)
>    6. Ice Axe Experience question (Joe Percival)
>    7. Ashland I-5 question (DjgPct@aol.com)
>    8. RE: Ashland I-5 question (Judson Brown)
>    9. Re: Ashland I-5 question (Marshall Karon)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:33:31 -0400
> From: Bob <bakpakr@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] MSR Dromlite bags
> To: Eric <radpin@gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <414C7F7B.9030502@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Eric" <radpin@gmail.com>
> >To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> >Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:14 PM
> >Subject: [pct-l] MSR Dromlite bags
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Question for everyone out there concerning hydration systems:
> >>
> >>It seems that everyone loves camelback / platypus style bags, but
> >>aknowledges that they are fairly weak and wear out pretty quick. At
> >>least that's what I get out of reading journals and a few first hand
> >>accounts.
> >>
> >>The MSR Dromlite bags seem notorious for being twenty shades of
> >>indestructable, and have a kit that converts them to hydration systems
> >>(tube and a bite valve). I've heard several people who have dirven
> >>their cars over dromlite bags (when the bags are full of water),
> >>dragged them behind cars by ropes, frozen them, and thrown them off
> >>buildings, all without bursting or tearing.
> >>
> >>So I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience with the 4 litre
> >>Dromlite bag and hydration kit, or perhaps opinions about it? Seems
> >>like a sound upgrade to the platypus bladder.
> >>
> >>Eric
> >>--
> >>http://www.radpin.com
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>pct-l mailing list
> >>pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >>unsubscribe or change options:
> >>http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I used a 2 liter on my AT thru attempt in 01. I would highly recomend them as hydration bags. held up extremely well. I killed a camelback before  Damascus and replaced it with the MSR Dromlight. Only one small problem I had was the bite valve kept leaking. I just replaced it with a bite valve from a camelback. I used the PuR Hiker filter (now Kataydin) so I couldn't take advantage of screwing my filter on to the bag. All I did was get a 1 female and 2 male quick disconect fittings. Put 1 male and 1 female inline one the line coming off thje domlight and 1 male on the output hose of my filter. That set-up worked great. Again I highly recommend the Domlights
> >
> >
> Bob Wardecker
> ShakeyLeggs
> Ga>Dam 01
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >pct-l mailing list
> >pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >unsubscribe or change options:
> >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:25:49 -0700
> From: "Cathy" <tahoe.cat@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] MSR Dromlite bags
> To: "Bob" <bakpakr@comcast.net>
> Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <011501c49dc6$11fa0560$b5803c04@dslverizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi the only reason I stay with the platy is because when it does break
> sports chalet replaces it for free. It just happened that I bought that
> first. It was very upsetting when it started leaking on the trail and I lost
> almost all of my three liters. Good thing for grand kids that carry a lot of
> water.    Ground Pounder Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob" <bakpakr@comcast.net>
> To: "Eric" <radpin@gmail.com>
> Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 11:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] MSR Dromlite bags
>
> >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Eric" <radpin@gmail.com>
> > >To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> > >Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:14 PM
> > >Subject: [pct-l] MSR Dromlite bags
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Question for everyone out there concerning hydration systems:
> > >>
> > >>It seems that everyone loves camelback / platypus style bags, but
> > >>aknowledges that they are fairly weak and wear out pretty quick. At
> > >>least that's what I get out of reading journals and a few first hand
> > >>accounts.
> > >>
> > >>The MSR Dromlite bags seem notorious for being twenty shades of
> > >>indestructable, and have a kit that converts them to hydration systems
> > >>(tube and a bite valve). I've heard several people who have dirven
> > >>their cars over dromlite bags (when the bags are full of water),
> > >>dragged them behind cars by ropes, frozen them, and thrown them off
> > >>buildings, all without bursting or tearing.
> > >>
> > >>So I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience with the 4 litre
> > >>Dromlite bag and hydration kit, or perhaps opinions about it? Seems
> > >>like a sound upgrade to the platypus bladder.
> > >>
> > >>Eric
> > >>--
> > >>http://www.radpin.com
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>pct-l mailing list
> > >>pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > >>unsubscribe or change options:
> > >>http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >I used a 2 liter on my AT thru attempt in 01. I would highly recomend
> them as hydration bags. held up extremely well. I killed a camelback before
> Damascus and replaced it with the MSR Dromlight. Only one small problem I
> had was the bite valve kept leaking. I just replaced it with a bite valve
> from a camelback. I used the PuR Hiker filter (now Kataydin) so I couldn't
> take advantage of screwing my filter on to the bag. All I did was get a 1
> female and 2 male quick disconect fittings. Put 1 male and 1 female inline
> one the line coming off thje domlight and 1 male on the output hose of my
> filter. That set-up worked great. Again I highly recommend the Domlights
> > >
> > >
> > Bob Wardecker
> > ShakeyLeggs
> > Ga>Dam 01
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >pct-l mailing list
> > >pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > >unsubscribe or change options:
> > >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:21:21 -0700
> From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] MSR Dromlite bags
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000b01c49dc5$71c1a210$6501a8c0@BOB>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I've had my three Platypus bladders on hte trail for four years now and
> never had a leak from the bag, but then I'm careful with my gear. The platys
> live inside my pack; never ride outside in a pocket, and are always
> well-padded to keep sharp things at a distance. Mine are the older version
> with the less secure connector for the hoser system. I've had a few leaks
> there when I didn't get it on just right. Wound up with a very wet butt one
> day and couldn't figure out why until I took off my pack and found it soaked
> through. The new connector system is far superior. I'm just too cheap to
> up-grade.
>
> Wandering Bob
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:18:07 -0700
> From: "Sharon & Chuck Chelin" <chelin@teleport.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Boots
> To: "Michael Deitchman" <freehueco@yahoo.com>,
>         <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <002001c49dcd$610831c0$7f2379a5@chelin>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Good afternoon, Mike,
>
> You are not nitpicking ... you are correct, of course.  I only put that
> "inventing" comment in as a gentle jab.  As I mentioned in the post, many of
> us ... apparently including you ... were well down that path before it
> became the "Ray Way."  To Jardine's credit, he did popularize the effort.
> Looking back, it is strange that no-one really promoted the idea sooner.
> Every time I think of Jardine I am reminded of a story about an inventor who
> complained indignantly that those people in the history books were stealing
> all his best ideas.
>
> Steel-Eye
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Deitchman" <freehueco@yahoo.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Boots
>
> >   I agree with much of your post. But a nitpick, if
> > you'll allow..
> >
> >  Ray Jardine did not, by any stretch, invent
> > lightweight backpacking. He came up with a system
> > which happens to work for many people. A lot of us
> > were already paring our packweights down to the
> > minimum years before the PCT Hiker's Handbook came out
> > (in '94 if I remember correctly).
> >
> >  Discussing hiking on the internet has always been
> > fun.. I can remember having huge east/west coast
> > debates on AOL in 1996. Now, since I avoid the east
> > coast forums, I only get involved in the gear debates.
> >
> >
> >  Mike
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:06:02 -0700
> From: "Cathy" <tahoe.cat@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] MSR Dromlite bags
> To: <Hikrtoo@aol.com>
> Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <001b01c49dd4$12272780$b5803c04@dslverizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> that sounds like a good idea. I did have 2 32oz nalgene bottles and 2 20oz frozen bottles to cool the platy but without the platy the hike from saddle junction to the I 10 last June was a bit hot and dry until we got to the bottom of the mountain. GPB
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Hikrtoo@aol.com
>   To: tahoe.cat@verizon.net
>   Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 2:53 PM
>   Subject: Re: [pct-l] MSR Dromlite bags
>
>   Hey Ground Pounder Bill
>
>   If I must carry three liters of water at once I use three one liter bottles, that way if on springs a leak I don't loose all the water at the same time.
>
>   Works for me.
>
>   Regards, Jim
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:18:53 -0700
> From: "Joe Percival" <djpercival@cox.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Ice Axe Experience question
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <20040919121857.FGYS7052.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@LT2>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> PCT Thru-hikers,
> I am trying to decide on Ice Axe or light weight crampons for next year's
> PCT.
> I have read many stories and trail journals where hikers fell going up or
> down a snowy pass with their Ice Axe safely strapped to their pack.  I do
> not recall hearing where the Ice Axe was actually out and used for self
> arrest while thru-hiking the PCT.
> If you have used your ice axe for self arrest while hiking the PCT or know
> of someone who has, could you share your experience please?
> Thanks,
> joe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:18:37 EDT
> From: DjgPct@aol.com
> Subject: [pct-l] Ashland I-5 question
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <ce.57eec56e.2e7f0b5d@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi y'all-
>
> I'll be going to meet Darrell in a couple of weeks.  I'm really excited!
> He'll have reached the border of California, and I plan to pick him up just south
> of Ashland, OR, where the PCT meets I-5.  Never having been on that route
> before, I'm wondering what to expect and how we can be sure not to miss one
> another.
>
> Can anyone tell me how the PCT crosses the hwy?  Does it go under?  Is there
> any indication for drivers that the PCT is even there?  Will I see it easily?
> I expect that if Darrell gets to the hwy before me, then it will be simple
> for me to see him if he waits by the side of the road.  But if I should get
> there first, I'd like to park and wait in a spot that is easy for him to get to,
> etc.
>
> I'd be grateful for any advice or suggestions that anyone has.
>
> Thanks so much!
>
> Betsy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:43:20 -0700
> From: "Judson Brown" <judson@jeffnet.org>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Ashland I-5 question
> To: <DjgPct@aol.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000001c49e67$c5a2afd0$1159f142@pounder>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Get off I-5 at exit 6 (Mt. Ashland). Get on the frontage road that parallels
> the freeway on the west side, southbound, in the direction of Mt. Ashland.
> There are 2 trailhead that are perhaps a half-mile apart. You'll reach the
> southbound one- the one at which he'll be arriving- about 150 yds. before
> the right turn to Mt. Ashland. It is on the right hand side of the road, and
> last time I was there, it was not signed. It looks like an old jeep road,
> which it is. If he gets there before you, he will probably make his way to
> Callahan's, which in on the east side of I-5 at exit 6. Hope this helps.
>
> Judson
> Ashland
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
> [mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net]On Behalf Of
> DjgPct@aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 9:19 AM
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Ashland I-5 question
>
> Hi y'all-
>
> I'll be going to meet Darrell in a couple of weeks.  I'm really excited!
> He'll have reached the border of California, and I plan to pick him up just
> south
> of Ashland, OR, where the PCT meets I-5.  Never having been on that route
> before, I'm wondering what to expect and how we can be sure not to miss one
> another.
>
> Can anyone tell me how the PCT crosses the hwy?  Does it go under?  Is there
> any indication for drivers that the PCT is even there?  Will I see it
> easily?
> I expect that if Darrell gets to the hwy before me, then it will be simple
> for me to see him if he waits by the side of the road.  But if I should get
> there first, I'd like to park and wait in a spot that is easy for him to get
> to,
> etc.
>
> I'd be grateful for any advice or suggestions that anyone has.
>
> Thanks so much!
>
> Betsy
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:44:16 -0700
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Ashland I-5 question
> To: <DjgPct@aol.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000301c49e67$e72861e0$6401a8c0@YOUR357898FF1F>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>         reply-type=original
>
> I suggest you meet at Castle Crags State Park at Castella (or at the store
> that is right there next to the Post Office). Most folks hike there rather
> than go directly on the trail. There is, however, a parking area for the PCT
> where it crosses I-5 (under the road) and there is a sign a couple miles
> North of Castle Crags. It is between Castella and Dunsmuir. Do not wait on
> I-5.
>
> Try this link for a map of Castle Crags - not sure if the trail at the right
> is the PCT or not. Most folks cross at the bridge on the left after walking
> the road East of the river.
> http://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/454/files/castle_crags2.pdf
>
> And then, stick around and drop in to the Aldha-West Gathering on Oct 1-3 at
> the Clair Tappan Lodge on Donner Summit (www.aldhawest.org).
>
> Marshall Karon
> Portland, OR
> m.karon@comcast.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DjgPct@aol.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 9:18 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] Ashland I-5 question
>
> > Hi y'all-
> >
> > I'll be going to meet Darrell in a couple of weeks.  I'm really excited!
> > He'll have reached the border of California, and I plan to pick him up
> > just south
> > of Ashland, OR, where the PCT meets I-5.  Never having been on that route
> > before, I'm wondering what to expect and how we can be sure not to miss
> > one
> > another.
> >
> > Can anyone tell me how the PCT crosses the hwy?  Does it go under?  Is
> > there
> > any indication for drivers that the PCT is even there?  Will I see it
> > easily?
> > I expect that if Darrell gets to the hwy before me, then it will be simple
> > for me to see him if he waits by the side of the road.  But if I should
> > get
> > there first, I'd like to park and wait in a spot that is easy for him to
> > get to,
> > etc.
> >
> > I'd be grateful for any advice or suggestions that anyone has.
> >
> > Thanks so much!
> >
> >
> > Betsy
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of pct-l Digest, Vol 17, Issue 19
> *************************************