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[pct-l] Re: Oregon fire closure

After finishing our hike at Manning Park on September 30, my husband and I
took the bus back to Sisters to see about doing the trail that we missed due
to the fires there.
We got an official map from the Deschutes Forest Service office showing the
areas that were opened and the areas in Jefferson Wilderness that were still
closed.  The trail through Mt. Washington wilderness was listed as being
open, although there were still "Closed" signs at the McKenzie pass trail
head.
The PCT from Hunt's Cove north, in Jefferson Wilderness,  was open as well.
Our official map, dated September 29, showed all the area around Marion Lake
to be open. The closure boundry on the map seemed to be along the county
line, which the PCT crisscrossed. There was also a trail called the Eight
Lakes Basin trail, that seemed to be in the open area, too. This trail
joined up with the alternate route that goes by Marion Lake.
Gail Des Moulins
----- Original Message -----
From: <pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:00 AM
Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 6, Issue 2


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Mt. Washington Wilderness Reopened (Craig Milo Rogers)
>    2. Re: Fw: Why can't we feed the bears? (Sean Crookham)
>    3. Stehekin Mail Service (Dick and Adele Bingham)
>    4. RE: A Belated Apology - Bears (Richard)
>    5. RE: A Belated Apology - Bears (dude)
>    6. Hanging  WAS: Apology - Bears (Kevin Corcoran)
>    7. RE: A Belated Apology - Bears (Richard)
>    8. Burning Calories (Rob Rathmann)
>    9. Re: Burning Calories (Richard)
>   10. Re: Burning Calories (Christopher Willett)
>   11. Re: Burning Calories (Brick Robbins)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:41:42 -0700
> From: Craig Milo Rogers <rogers@isi.edu>
> Subject: [pct-l] Mt. Washington Wilderness Reopened
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20031001174142.GA1182@isi.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> According to the Forest Service, the Mt. Washington Wilderness
> has been reopened to PCT hikers. The Mt. Jefferson Wilderness closure
> remains.
>
> http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/centraloregon/news/2003/09/030930bandb.shtml
>
> Craig "Computer" Rogers
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:56:23 -0700
> From: "Sean Crookham" <scrookham@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fw: Why can't we feed the bears?
> To: crush@ptd.net, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <Law15-F112aYFkuutSg00003ef7@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Thank you, that made for a great laugh this morning.
>
>
> >From: "Judith Rush" <crush@ptd.net>
> >To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> >Subject: [pct-l] Fw: Why can't we feed the bears?
> >Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:44:11 -0400
> >
> >
> >
> > > The following views are suggestions and comments that have been
received
> > > by the National Forest Service from visitors to our nation's parks:
> > >
> > > "Need more signs to keep the park pristine."
> > >
> > > "Escalators would help on steep uphill areas of the hiking trails."
> > >
> > > "More families would enjoy the parks and city children could learn
more
> > > about nature if the Parks Department would provide services that
include
> > > arcades, water slides and child care."
> > >
> > > "A big hotel with a golf course and even a convention center would
> > > attract more people to this natural beauty."
> > >
> > > "Instead of a permit system or fees, the Forest Service needs to
reduce
> > > worldwide population growth to limit the number of visitors to the
> > > wilderness."
> > >
> > > "Trails need to be wider so people can walk while holding ands."
> > >
> > > "All the mile markers are missing this year."
> > >
> > > "We found a smoldering cigarette left by a horse."
> > >
> > > "Many trails need to be reconstructed. Please avoid building ones that
> > > go uphill."
> > >
> > > Too many bugs and leeches and spider webs. Please spray wilderness
areas
> > > to rid them of these pests."
> > >
> > > "Please pave the trails so they can be plowed of snow in the winter."
> > >
> > > "Chair lifts need to be in some places so that we can get to the
> > > wonderful views without having to hike to them."
> > >
> > > "The coyotes made too much noise last night and kept me awake. Please
> > > eradicate these annoying animals."
> > >
> > > "It would be nice to have the Kodak scenic markers so we could
identify
> > > the photographic sites."
> > >
> > > "I like all the trees but you need to plant some flowers. Flower
gardens
> > > would be so pretty in the forest."
> > >
> > > "The giant trees are spectacular but there are too many of the same
> > > kind; you should plant different types, for variety."
> > >
> > > "Reflectors need to be placed on the trees every 50 feet so people
could
> > > hike at night with flashlights."
> > >
> > > "You should have a petting zoo here so that the children could touch
the
> > > squirrels, deer and bears."
> > >
> > > "I was stung by a bee; you should have warning signs."
> > >
> > > "A McDonald's would be a nice sight at the trailhead."
> > >
> > > "The places where trails do not exist are not well marked."
> > >
> > > "Too many rocks on the mountains."
> > >
> > > "A deer came into my camp and stole my bag of chips. Is there away I
can
> > > get
> > > reimbursed: Please call . . . . ."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >pct-l mailing list
> >pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >unsubscribe or change options:
> >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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offer--
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:01:50 -0700
> From: "Dick and Adele Bingham" <binghamstehekin@starband.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Stehekin Mail Service
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <027601c38870$5c05bb20$1a573f94@Dick>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> As I understand it, beginning next Saturday, there will be NO MAIL SERVICE
ON SATURDAYS in Stehekin, WA. You will be limited to Mon-->Fri service
only...
>
> Happy hiking.
>
> Dick Bingham - w7wkr
> Stehekin, WAFrom judsonb@internetcds.com  Wed Oct  1 18:55:53 2003
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> From: "judson" <judsonb@internetcds.com>
> To: <Slyatpct@aol.com>, <jkeener@pct04.com>,
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] A Belated Apology - Bears
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:59:22 -0700
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>
> We were trying to decide if they're better with mushrooms and onions, or
> sauteed with some basil and garlic. Now me, I'm a cougar man...
>
> Judson
> Ashland, OR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
> [mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net]On Behalf Of
> Slyatpct@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:11 PM
> To: jkeener@pct04.com; pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] A Belated Apology - Bears
>
>
> I missed a bear thread, what was it about?
>
> I've done some backpacking in bear country and believe I have a fairly
good
> grasp of what's going on.  What was the question?
>
> We talking Griz?  : )
>
> Sly
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:04:31 -0700
> From: Richard <calliger@infolane.com>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] A Belated Apology - Bears
> To: "judson" <judsonb@internetcds.com>, <Slyatpct@aol.com>,
> <jkeener@pct04.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <2.2.32.20031002000431.00bd48fc@postal.infolane.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> ..but you should have tasted the Bald Eagle I had last week...
> yummmy
>
>
> At 04:59 PM 10/1/03 -0700, judson wrote:
> >We were trying to decide if they're better with mushrooms and onions, or
> >sauteed with some basil and garlic. Now me, I'm a cougar man...
> >
> >Judson
> >Ashland, OR
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
> >[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net]On Behalf Of
> >Slyatpct@aol.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:11 PM
> >To: jkeener@pct04.com; pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >Subject: Re: [pct-l] A Belated Apology - Bears
> >
> >
> >I missed a bear thread, what was it about?
> >
> >I've done some backpacking in bear country and believe I have a fairly
good
> >grasp of what's going on.  What was the question?
> >
> >We talking Griz?  : )
> >
> >Sly
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >pct-l mailing list
> >pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >unsubscribe or change options:
> >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:19:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "dude" <dude@fastmail.ca>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] A Belated Apology - Bears
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <3F7B7D07.000001.10258@ns.interchange.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> its nice to see a connoisseur of fine food AND a patriot!
>
>
> > ..but you should have tasted the Bald Eagle I had last week...
> > yummmy
> >
> >
> > At 04:59 PM 10/1/03 -0700, judson wrote:
> >> We were trying to decide if they're better with mushrooms and
> >> onions, or sauteed with some basil and garlic. Now me, I'm a
> >> cougar man...
> >>
> >> Judson
> >> Ashland, OR
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
> >> [mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net]On Behalf Of
> >> Slyatpct@aol.com
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:11 PM
> >> To: jkeener@pct04.com; pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >> Subject: Re: [pct-l] A Belated Apology - Bears
> >>
> >>
> >> I missed a bear thread, what was it about?
> >>
> >> I've done some backpacking in bear country and believe I have a
> >> fairly good grasp of what's going on.  What was the question?
> >>
> >> We talking Griz?  : )
> >>
> >> Sly
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> pct-l mailing list
> >> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >> unsubscribe or change options:
> >> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>     http://fastmail.ca/ - Fast Secure Web Email for Canadians
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:55:41 -0700
> From: Kevin Corcoran <kevin@antelecom.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Hanging  WAS: Apology - Bears
> To: pct-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <a05210603bba134ee0abd@[66.102.200.185]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> And an important reminder about dealing with bears: hanging doesn't
> work anymore.
> You've got to hang the bear first, THEN shoot 'im.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> >We were trying to decide if they're better with mushrooms and onions, or
> >sauteed with some basil and garlic. Now me, I'm a cougar man...
> >
> >Judson
> >Ashland, OR
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:07:36 -0700
> From: Richard <calliger@infolane.com>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] A Belated Apology - Bears
> To: "dude" <dude@fastmail.ca>, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <2.2.32.20031002040736.00bbecb0@postal.infolane.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> <g>
>
>
>
> At 09:19 PM 10/1/03 -0400, dude wrote:
> >its nice to see a connoisseur of fine food AND a patriot!
> >
> >
> >> ..but you should have tasted the Bald Eagle I had last week...
> >> yummmy
> >>
> >>
> >> At 04:59 PM 10/1/03 -0700, judson wrote:
> >>> We were trying to decide if they're better with mushrooms and
> >>> onions, or sauteed with some basil and garlic. Now me, I'm a
> >>> cougar man...
> >>>
> >>> Judson
> >>> Ashland, OR
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
> >>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net]On Behalf Of
> >>> Slyatpct@aol.com
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:11 PM
> >>> To: jkeener@pct04.com; pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] A Belated Apology - Bears
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I missed a bear thread, what was it about?
> >>>
> >>> I've done some backpacking in bear country and believe I have a
> >>> fairly good grasp of what's going on.  What was the question?
> >>>
> >>> We talking Griz?  : )
> >>>
> >>> Sly
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> pct-l mailing list
> >>> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >>> unsubscribe or change options:
> >>> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> pct-l mailing list
> >> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >> unsubscribe or change options:
> >> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >    http://fastmail.ca/ - Fast Secure Web Email for
> Canadians_______________________________________________
> >pct-l mailing list
> >pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >unsubscribe or change options:
> >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:33:00 -0400
> From: "Rob Rathmann" <rrathmann@groupconvergence.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Burning Calories
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <JMEIKDAJPOCDAGALENJIOECCCKAA.rrathmann@groupconvergence.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Fellow Wanderers-
>
> In the midst of planning my '04 thru-hike (and training for the Atlanta
> marathon), I started thinking about how many calories a hiker burns during
> an average day of hiking.  The magnitude of the numbers BLEW ME AWAY.  The
> equations depend on something called the Mcoefficient(calories / minute /
> kg)- you can find a good list of M coefficients for different activities
at
> http://www.fitnesslogs.com/calories3.htm  Here are 2 examples:
>
> Hiking, cross country for 8 hours: 4572.21 Calories
> Walking, upstairs for 8 hours: 6081.04 Calories
>
> THAT IS BURNING BETWEEN 4572.21-6081.04 Calories DURING AN 8 HOUR HIKE!!!
>
> Even if you carry as much food as possible and gorge yourself at every
trail
> town, you must develop a rather large caloric deficit after 4 months.  Has
> anyone measured their body mass index before and after a thru-hike?
>
> Equations used:
> Calories_burned= Mcoefficient * Mass * Minutes
> I used 2 different Mcoefficients: .1 (Hiking, cross country), and .133
> (Walking, upstairs).
> I used a mass of 175 lbs + 35 lb pack, converted to kilograms (1 pounds =
> 0.45359237 kilograms).
> I used 8 hours (480) minutes for the time hiking.
>
>
> Carcinomad '04
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:03:23 -0700
> From: Richard <calliger@infolane.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning Calories
> To: "Rob Rathmann" <rrathmann@groupconvergence.com>,
> <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <2.2.32.20031002160323.00c24404@postal.infolane.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> 1 LB OF BODY weight (fat?) is about 3200 cal if I recall
> correctly...anyone have a definitive number?
>
> Richard
>
> At 10:33 AM 10/2/03 -0400, Rob Rathmann wrote:
> >Fellow Wanderers-
> >
> >In the midst of planning my '04 thru-hike (and training for the Atlanta
> >marathon), I started thinking about how many calories a hiker burns
during
> >an average day of hiking.  The magnitude of the numbers BLEW ME AWAY.
The
> >equations depend on something called the Mcoefficient(calories / minute /
> >kg)- you can find a good list of M coefficients for different activities
at
> >http://www.fitnesslogs.com/calories3.htm  Here are 2 examples:
> >
> >Hiking, cross country for 8 hours: 4572.21 Calories
> >Walking, upstairs for 8 hours: 6081.04 Calories
> >
> >THAT IS BURNING BETWEEN 4572.21-6081.04 Calories DURING AN 8 HOUR HIKE!!!
> >
> >Even if you carry as much food as possible and gorge yourself at every
trail
> >town, you must develop a rather large caloric deficit after 4 months.
Has
> >anyone measured their body mass index before and after a thru-hike?
> >
> >Equations used:
> >Calories_burned= Mcoefficient * Mass * Minutes
> >I used 2 different Mcoefficients: .1 (Hiking, cross country), and .133
> >(Walking, upstairs).
> >I used a mass of 175 lbs + 35 lb pack, converted to kilograms (1 pounds =
> >0.45359237 kilograms).
> >I used 8 hours (480) minutes for the time hiking.
> >
> >
> >Carcinomad '04
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >pct-l mailing list
> >pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >unsubscribe or change options:
> >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:08:47 -0500 (EST)
> From: Christopher Willett <chwillet@indiana.edu>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning Calories
> To: Richard <calliger@infolane.com>
> Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <Pine.GSO.3.96.1031002110544.17115G-100000@ariel.ucs.indiana.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I've heard 3500 calories is a pound of pure body weight (i.e, not fluid
> loss).  I tried to take in 4-5000 calories a day when hiking this summer.
> I went from 215 to 193, then gained 7 pounds in the first two weeks of
> being back.  A lot of fluid gain.  The weight loss would have been a lot
> greater, but I put on a lot of muscle in my legs over the summer. I
> was skinny enough at the end of the summer that you could see my
> ribs easily (nice monument shot).  As I am a little over 6'4", 193
> lbs isn't terribly light for me.  I just didn't have any fat on me
> to hide my ribs.
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Richard wrote:
>
> > 1 LB OF BODY weight (fat?) is about 3200 cal if I recall
> > correctly...anyone have a definitive number?
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > At 10:33 AM 10/2/03 -0400, Rob Rathmann wrote:
> > >Fellow Wanderers-
> > >
> > >In the midst of planning my '04 thru-hike (and training for the Atlanta
> > >marathon), I started thinking about how many calories a hiker burns
during
> > >an average day of hiking.  The magnitude of the numbers BLEW ME AWAY.
The
> > >equations depend on something called the Mcoefficient(calories / minute
/
> > >kg)- you can find a good list of M coefficients for different
activities at
> > >http://www.fitnesslogs.com/calories3.htm  Here are 2 examples:
> > >
> > >Hiking, cross country for 8 hours: 4572.21 Calories
> > >Walking, upstairs for 8 hours: 6081.04 Calories
> > >
> > >THAT IS BURNING BETWEEN 4572.21-6081.04 Calories DURING AN 8 HOUR
HIKE!!!
> > >
> > >Even if you carry as much food as possible and gorge yourself at every
trail
> > >town, you must develop a rather large caloric deficit after 4 months.
Has
> > >anyone measured their body mass index before and after a thru-hike?
> > >
> > >Equations used:
> > >Calories_burned= Mcoefficient * Mass * Minutes
> > >I used 2 different Mcoefficients: .1 (Hiking, cross country), and .133
> > >(Walking, upstairs).
> > >I used a mass of 175 lbs + 35 lb pack, converted to kilograms (1 pounds
=
> > >0.45359237 kilograms).
> > >I used 8 hours (480) minutes for the time hiking.
> > >
> > >
> > >Carcinomad '04
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >pct-l mailing list
> > >pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > >unsubscribe or change options:
> > >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
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> ----------------------
> Christopher Willett
> Department of Mathematics
> Indiana University
> 831 East Third Street
> Bloomington, IN. 47405-7106
> (812)-855-1883
> chwillet@indiana.edu
> mypage.iu.edu/~chwillet
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:54:18 -0700
> From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning Calories
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20031002094821.029ed640@fastpack.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 09:03 AM 10/2/03, Richard wrote:
> >1 LB OF BODY weight (fat?) is about 3200 cal if I recall
> >correctly...anyone have a definitive number?
>
> I went from 180# to 150#  carrying 5000Cal per day, and hiking about 30
> miles, with a base pack wt of 12#. That did NOT count what I stuffed in my
> face in towns.
>
> After doing my meal planning, and looking at what I was using as food, I
> figured that 5000Cal weighed in at about 1kg, or ( 2.2# ). If you lived
> entirely off pure fat (9Cal/g) you could get that down to 0.555 kg, or
1.2#.
>
> --
> Brick Robbins
>
> All that is gold does not glitter,
> not all those who wander, are lost....
>
>
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> End of pct-l Digest, Vol 6, Issue 2
> ***********************************