[pct-l] lack of manners

[Owen <jrowen@ibm.net>]

Gee, Birgitte - didn't anyone ever tell you that it's bad form to put
private communications into a public forum?  Seems Birgitte didn't learn
any manners in the last flame war she started (anyone remember the Zip
stove war??) so she wants to try again.  And to misquote me at that!! 
I guess she really got lit up about it.  :-)

Well, let's not keep everyone in the dark about what was REALLY said -
since they got part of it (and twisted at that), they might as well have
all of it.  

What follows is the complete text of what I wrote to Birgitte last
night.  If I were really gonna stalk someone, it certainly wouldn't be
an ill-mannered ranger who hates thruhikers.  :-))

Just one question, Birgitte - What ARE you doing on this list?  Besides
sowing fear about bears, creating dissension, sneering at thruhikers and
just generally being ill-mannered?  

Walk softly - and always live as if everything you say or do will be
published around the world, 
Jim

________________________________________________________________________

Birgitte Jensen wrote:
>   Owen, you have posted some very  presumptuous and innacurate
>assumptions about me. I haven't the foggiest idea why you think you know
>anything about me at all, but aside from that, your message is
>insinuating and offensive.

Birgitte -
I know what you've told me about yourself - and that's more than you 
imagine.  This is something I've kept close at hand for more years 
than you've been alive --

You tell what you are by the friends you seek,
By the very manner in which you speak,
By the way you employ your leisure time,
By the use you make of a dollar and dime.

You tell what you are by the things you wear,
By the spirit in which your burdens bear,
By the kinds of things at which you laugh,
By the records you play on the phonograph.

You tell what you are by the way you walk,
By the things of which you delight in talk,
By the manner in which you bear defeat,
By so simple a thing as how you eat,

By the books you choose from the well-filled shelf;
In these ways and more, you tell on yourself.

--- Author unknown

It reminds me that everything I say or do, every idea I express and the 
way I express it, tells people who and what I am -- if they understand. 
It works both ways - and you've told me a lot more than you think about 
who you are.

As for being insinuating - I wouldn't bother with that. I didn't give 
you a lot of answers - but more than enough if you're capable of real 
thought and of getting past your preconceptions.

Offensive?  Possibly.  Depends on how you take what I said. I fed you 
straight facts - I don't have the time, energy or inclination to play 
bullshit games.  If you can't handle reality, then you just might find 
me offensive.

But keep in mind that I find it offensive when someone presumes to tell 
others what they should be carrying in their packs. There's an old maxim 
that says - "Nothing's impossible for someone who doesn't have to do
it."

There's an implied, although unstated, assumption that either
your training as a ranger or your backpacking experience (I'm
not sure which) gives you some knowledge about thruhiking.  As
my niece once expressed it so succinctly - Bullfeathers. I've
found that there are a few people who think thruhiking is no
different than a 2 week vacation.  I've invariably found that
those people are totally clueless about what it takes to 
thruhike a long trail. 

I've heard a plausible comparison between thruhiking and combat -
and in both cases, if you haven't been there, then your opinion
is just that and it's better left unsaid. Having been through both,
I don't have enough time left in my life to either educate or
tolerate those who think they know it all and aren't willing to
learn.

>    I believe I posted earlier that  (in reference to Brick's sneering
>dismissal of the majority of list-ers' hiking habits): "I am rapidly
>forming the impression that the louder a poster boasts about his
>Experience, the more of a bona fide Idiot he often is!"

I have yet to see Brick sneer at anything that doesn't deserve it.
As for idiots - we all take our turns at that particular part of
the human condition.  The real question is whether we recognize
when it's our turn. :-)

>     Do you honestly expect me to get into a nonsensical head-butting
>contest with you?

You really don't want to do that.  I didn't say anything in the previous 
post that was deliberately offensive.  What you got were straightforward
comments on your views.  If you can't handle disagreement any better
than that you've got a problem.  Your entire return post consisted of a
personal attack on me - you don't want to make a habit of that. If you
have something real to say then let's hear it - but I don't see anything
of substance in your post.  Where are your answers to my points? 

>Did you read my posts (especially the part where I said
>I found the canisters' weight personally unfeasible) with any degree of
>comprehension - I think not, sadly.

You might want to read your own stuff again - you didn't say that. Your
post to the list was a sales job FOR bear canisters.  The only reference
to any objection on your part was when you wrote:
>>>>
     bj,       who doesn't want to have to have HER Freedom curtailed
(in
the form of more fees/restrictions, requirements to lug a bear canister
on every backpack, scars from bear claws/teeth, etc) to protect somebody
else's Right To Be Ignorant (or a slob)(or an "outlaw'), grrrrrrrrr.
<<<<

There's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. I read the rest of
what you wrote -- and the semantic weight of your closing statement
doesn't override that of the main body of your post.

>Well, as long as you don't feed bears
>EVER, or advise others to enter a backcountry crap-shoot vis a vis bear
>feeding, I have no beef with you - only your unpleasant manner, the
>memory of which shall quickly fade <chuckle>....
>    At ease!       bj

Don't bet on that - I've been here since the list was initiated - and
I'll be here for another 9 months. I don't post much and I've become
somewhat of a "bad boy" because what I do post is usually in response to
someone who's irritated me. 

Walk softly,
Jim

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