[pct-l] Troublemakers

Sun Jan 10 15:15:00 CST 2016

After walking into town after town and hearing the locals talk about the destructive behavior, I am so thrilled to see this conversation. We don't want the hikers to be viewed like a mob of out of a bad biker movie. I have arrived at resupply points and cleaned up after hikers who left their trash and empties lying around the front door. I heard from other hikers who were doing the same thing. 
I'm hoping that the KO group will agree to addressing this issue. I will certainly talk about it in the workshop in which I'm involved. We can't be general in our comments. " "Do onto  others" won't fly. We have to be specific.  These behaviors are unacceptable. "Hike your own hike" used to mean wear what you want,carry what you want,walk at the speed you want,take the routes you want. It does not mean trash everything out there because you are unconscious either because you are stoned/drunk or because you get off on doing damage. There are usually the leaders and the followers in these groups. If you see one forming,walk away. You'll find someone else to hike with. Don't be afraid. There are many more thoughtful delightful fun hikers out there than there are these nightmares. There are no "police" out there except of course the park Rangers. On the AT the Baxter Rangers cited that runner on Katadin. 
It's just us hikers valuing the trail. That includes every part of it. People,animals,Angels,
small stores,Towns
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 10, 2016, at 12:06 PM, Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
> 
> Nancy.......We started hosting in 2003. 12 the first year. Every year
> after our numbers increased about 50 a year. 2013.....395.  2014.....706.
> 2015......536. We probably lost between 75-100 to Skykomish when we changed
> to no alcohol this last year. Curious to see what's coming this year.
> Wild came out 3 years ago ??
> 
> Andrea
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Nancy Thomas <nanthomas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Do you all think it is because of the  trails publicity (Wild)?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2016, at 10:12 AM, Linda Sheehan <lwshee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Andrea, that is a very telling point. Im sorry about this print size;
>>> can't seem to get rid of it now...
>>> However, one of the issues that has come up is the techno advances on the
>>> trail. Am I just old fashioned (well old anyway) or am I seeing more 'me
>>> against the trail' or 'I'm cool and I'm special because I can do all
>> these
>>> miles' behavior. I've certainly noticed in the blogs and selfies (that
>> word
>>> tells you something) that the miles per day and the *crowd* behavior is
>> the
>>> only reason a lot of people do the trail. The experience is a reflection
>> of
>>> them, not our small part of the wonderful, awesome and respectful
>>> experience of the wilderness. Anyway, I'll get off my high horse. This
>> kind
>>> of behavior hasn't always been confined to the outdoors. I guess the
>>> Continental Divide trail will have to be solace to the younger ones to
>> find
>>> more peace and solitude than the PCT has to offer now.
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:56 AM, Andrea Dinsmore <
>>> andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I see a comparison between NOBOs and SOBOs.   SOBOs aren't into the
>>>> drinking, smoking, bad attitudes or smart ass behavior. They seem to be
>>>> more into the trail and their performance and planning.  Partying is
>> the
>>>> furthest thought of their hike. Maybe part of this difference is that
>> they
>>>> start a few at a time and have to immediately get serious about their
>>>> survival. This has been the way the SOBOs have been for 14 years.  The
>>>> NOBOs (that drink a lot) would hit here and show up with 1-2 cases of
>> beer
>>>> each were always under 30 yrs old and showed up in a group. Solo hikers
>>>> occasionally with 1 six pack.
>>>> 
>>>> Andrea
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Linda Sheehan <lwshee at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is there anything we can do about this problem at an individual hiker
>>>>> level? I respect the attempts by the PCT organization to try and lessen
>>>>> the
>>>>> blow on the trail. But when we see things happening what do people of
>> this
>>>>> forum think we can do to try to stem the tide?
>>>>> I have never (being a section hiker) attended, sad to say, the party in
>>>>> April at Moreno. Would that be a venue to enforce the golden rule in
>> some
>>>>> way?
>>>>> Will this issue be dealt with in any way at the San Diego get together?
>>>>> lover of the hills, Linda S.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 5:29 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net
>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Ned Tibbits" <ned at mountaineducation.org>
>>>>>> To: "Roger Carpenter" <pinecone at elkpass.com>, Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2016 10:07:08 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Troublemakers
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just a quick question on this topic of "trail policing..."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What does the AT do about it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As an organization, not much that I'm aware of. With many more hikers,
>>>>> the
>>>>>> number of self-centered jerks is proportionally larger than on the
>> PCT,
>>>>> and
>>>>>> more concentrated (shorter trail, more trail towns to resupply).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A recent issue of the AT magazine ("AT Journeys") highlighted the
>>>>> problems
>>>>>> that hikers are creating in Baxter State Park and Mt. Katahdin
>>>>>> particularly. Even a thru-runner, seeking to break the time record,
>>>>>> blatantly violated several BSP rules for Katadhin. Apparently, it's
>>>>> gotten
>>>>>> so bad that park officials are considering closing Katadhin as the
>>>>> northern
>>>>>> terminus of the AT, which would be a real tragedy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The ATC is following many of the same strategies that the PCTA is (or
>>>>>> maybe vice-versa) - trying to get people to spread out their start
>>>>> times,
>>>>>> esp. at the southern end; increased education about LNT and town
>>>>> behavior,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One thing for sure - this is a problem in the greater society, not
>> just
>>>>>> the trails. Bad trail behavior is just reflecting what's happening in
>>>>>> society. And I don't see it being eliminated any time soon.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mango
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ned Tibbits, Director
>>>>>> Mountain Education, Inc.
>>>>>> www.mountaineducation.org
>>>>>> ned at mountaineducation.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mission:
>>>>>> "To minimize wilderness accidents, injury, and illness in order to
>>>>> maximize
>>>>>> wilderness enjoyment, safety, and personal growth, all through
>>>>> experiential
>>>>>> education and risk awareness training."
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