[pct-l] Isobutane Canister performance

Wed Sep 11 12:27:24 CDT 2013

I can't take it anymore...Matt...you need to chill.  Take it for what it
is.  Feel free to post alternative viewpoints for consideration, but the
vitriol in your message is so over the top, it's like Mary just killed your
first-born or something.  She's just trying to help...assume that good
intent.  Your info is helpful, but the spirit in which it's delivered is
frankly dumbfounding to me.  Can't we all get along...there's enough
flaming on the Internet, this is one spot that "generally" stays away from
that.  Thanks for your insightful information...but for the sake of all of
us, please play nice.

-GoalTech

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Matt Signore <mpsignore at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry to hear with all your experience you are almost a decade behind on
> your definitive findings.  Here is a 8 year old study about canister
> stoves.
>
> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq#.UjCe78aWZ8F
>
> Sorry it shreds your findings to pieces.  BPL has a ton of wonderful
> articles just like this one.  Maybe someone will get you a subscription for
> the holidays.  People who back their findings with data.  Not half thought
> out supposition.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have been asked by several people what my experience with isobutane
> > canisters have been on this list serve. I can give anecdotal results. I
> am
> > a fan of anecdotal results because it reflects real experience and not
> > merely "data". I have 30 years of experience using "data" in the outdoors
> > through my job and have often found it takes a back door to so-called
> > anecdotal experience. My experience with isobutane canisters has been in
> a
> > wide range of multiple elevations and temperatures. Hiking on the
> Colorado
> > Trail, the Grand Enchantment trail through New Mexico and Arizona and on
> > the Arizona Trail. I have noticed the longevity of using isobutane for
> > several years, but decided to quantify it more for my own use and for the
> > use of others. I believe the factors you consider stumbling blocks to
> good
> > advice are minimal. We do not need to have every factor quantified down
> to
> > the gnat's ass in order to give or get good advice from valid and far
> > reaching outdoor experience.
> > --Fireweed
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > "Matt Signore" <mpsignore at gmail.com>
> >
> > To:
> > "Mary Kwart" <mkwart at gci.net>
> > Cc:
> >
> > Sent:
> > Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:29:20 -0500
> > Subject:
> > Re: [pct-l] Isobutane Canister performance
> >
> >
> > I will bite.  Why then did you omit the 5 weeks data collection in
> > Colorado from your original post?  Is it because a huge hole was poked in
> > your unverified theory?  You seem to throw in the extra five weeks of
> data
> > you gathered as an after thought.  To steal from reddit "pics or it
> didn't
> > happen".
> >
> > You do realize there is a different 3 season mix and winter mix by most
> > isobutane canister manufacturers.  Hmmm I wonder why?  Is it because cold
> > temperatures effect the burn rate of canister fuels?
> >
> > You say it was colder in Colorado.  Well how cold?  Gathering half the
> > data and omitting half of that data makes you about a quarter of the way
> to
> > a failing grade for 8th grade science class.
> >
> > Also cook pot dimensions will provide different results on boil times.
> You
> > didn't even mention what you were boiling the water in.  Did you use the
> > same cook pot for both trips?  Was it a rolling boil or you just saw a
> few
> > bubbles start to form?  You provide very little hard data other than
> > weights.  Basically your original post was half thought out and
> > scientifically invalid.
> >
> > I know this may come off as harsh, but coming to the public with a half
> > thought out study is just more list fodder.  Fireweed, this is the part
> > where you get to respond back pedaling with no hard data.
> >
> > Note I kept this off the list to be nice.  If you wish to bring it public
> > again.  There are more than a few SERIOUS studies that you can easily
> find
> > with a Google search that are done by scientists and engineers in the
> field
> > on burn rates.  You didn't discover anything.  You just puked a half
> > thought out idea on the list.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
> >
> >>  Hi:
> >>
> >> I had the same results using the same size and type isobutane canister
> on
> >> 5 weeks on the Colorado Trail at an average elevation of 12,000 feet
> and at
> >> colder temps.
> >> --Fireweed
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From:
> >> "Matt Signore" <mpsignore at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> To:
> >> "Mary Kwart" <mkwart at gci.net>
> >> Cc:
> >> "pct-l" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> >> Sent:
> >> Tue, 10 Sep 2013 08:02:37 -0500
> >> Subject:
> >> Re: [pct-l] Isobutane Canister performance
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope the outside temperature stays the same for all your hikes. Same
> >> with the water temperature before being put on the stove.  Make sure to
> >> stay at the same elevation for every meal.  Otherwise you will find all
> >> your calculations are unreliable in other conditions.  Just a few
> >> considerations.
> >>
> >> Matt Signore
> >> pcthandbook.com
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hi, all:
> >>>
> >>> I just finished hiking the Oregon section of the PCT and finally got
> >>> to definitively figure out how much fuel I use. I packed an MSR
> >>> isobutane cartridge that had an 8 oz net weight. I boiled 1 3/4 cup of
> >>> water daily and put the boiling water in a freezer ziplock with the
> >>> food in a cozy to cook. I used a snow peak canister stove attachment
> >>> and a titanium pot. It took 6.1 grams of fuel to boil 1 3/4 cup water.
> >>> I still had about a quarter of the fuel canister left after I reached
> >>> the Washington border. Now I know how to gage what's left in all my
> >>> partially used canisters at home. I can get about 37 days of 1 boil a
> >>> day from a larger MSR canister.
> >>> --Fireweed
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Matt Signore
> >> pcthandbook.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matt Signore
> > pcthandbook.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Matt Signore
> pcthandbook.com
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