[pct-l] Isobutane Canister performance

Wed Sep 11 22:18:35 CDT 2013

Hear, hear! Thank you, Michael. I don't think I could have aid it with as much grace as you did. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2013, at 12:27 PM, Michael Irving <michaeljirving at gmail.com> wrote:

> I can't take it anymore...Matt...you need to chill.  Take it for what it
> is.  Feel free to post alternative viewpoints for consideration, but the
> vitriol in your message is so over the top, it's like Mary just killed your
> first-born or something.  She's just trying to help...assume that good
> intent.  Your info is helpful, but the spirit in which it's delivered is
> frankly dumbfounding to me.  Can't we all get along...there's enough
> flaming on the Internet, this is one spot that "generally" stays away from
> that.  Thanks for your insightful information...but for the sake of all of
> us, please play nice.
> 
> -GoalTech
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Matt Signore <mpsignore at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Sorry to hear with all your experience you are almost a decade behind on
>> your definitive findings.  Here is a 8 year old study about canister
>> stoves.
>> 
>> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq#.UjCe78aWZ8F
>> 
>> Sorry it shreds your findings to pieces.  BPL has a ton of wonderful
>> articles just like this one.  Maybe someone will get you a subscription for
>> the holidays.  People who back their findings with data.  Not half thought
>> out supposition.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I have been asked by several people what my experience with isobutane
>>> canisters have been on this list serve. I can give anecdotal results. I
>> am
>>> a fan of anecdotal results because it reflects real experience and not
>>> merely "data". I have 30 years of experience using "data" in the outdoors
>>> through my job and have often found it takes a back door to so-called
>>> anecdotal experience. My experience with isobutane canisters has been in
>> a
>>> wide range of multiple elevations and temperatures. Hiking on the
>> Colorado
>>> Trail, the Grand Enchantment trail through New Mexico and Arizona and on
>>> the Arizona Trail. I have noticed the longevity of using isobutane for
>>> several years, but decided to quantify it more for my own use and for the
>>> use of others. I believe the factors you consider stumbling blocks to
>> good
>>> advice are minimal. We do not need to have every factor quantified down
>> to
>>> the gnat's ass in order to give or get good advice from valid and far
>>> reaching outdoor experience.
>>> --Fireweed
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From:
>>> "Matt Signore" <mpsignore at gmail.com>
>>> 
>>> To:
>>> "Mary Kwart" <mkwart at gci.net>
>>> Cc:
>>> 
>>> Sent:
>>> Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:29:20 -0500
>>> Subject:
>>> Re: [pct-l] Isobutane Canister performance
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I will bite.  Why then did you omit the 5 weeks data collection in
>>> Colorado from your original post?  Is it because a huge hole was poked in
>>> your unverified theory?  You seem to throw in the extra five weeks of
>> data
>>> you gathered as an after thought.  To steal from reddit "pics or it
>> didn't
>>> happen".
>>> 
>>> You do realize there is a different 3 season mix and winter mix by most
>>> isobutane canister manufacturers.  Hmmm I wonder why?  Is it because cold
>>> temperatures effect the burn rate of canister fuels?
>>> 
>>> You say it was colder in Colorado.  Well how cold?  Gathering half the
>>> data and omitting half of that data makes you about a quarter of the way
>> to
>>> a failing grade for 8th grade science class.
>>> 
>>> Also cook pot dimensions will provide different results on boil times.
>> You
>>> didn't even mention what you were boiling the water in.  Did you use the
>>> same cook pot for both trips?  Was it a rolling boil or you just saw a
>> few
>>> bubbles start to form?  You provide very little hard data other than
>>> weights.  Basically your original post was half thought out and
>>> scientifically invalid.
>>> 
>>> I know this may come off as harsh, but coming to the public with a half
>>> thought out study is just more list fodder.  Fireweed, this is the part
>>> where you get to respond back pedaling with no hard data.
>>> 
>>> Note I kept this off the list to be nice.  If you wish to bring it public
>>> again.  There are more than a few SERIOUS studies that you can easily
>> find
>>> with a Google search that are done by scientists and engineers in the
>> field
>>> on burn rates.  You didn't discover anything.  You just puked a half
>>> thought out idea on the list.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi:
>>>> 
>>>> I had the same results using the same size and type isobutane canister
>> on
>>>> 5 weeks on the Colorado Trail at an average elevation of 12,000 feet
>> and at
>>>> colder temps.
>>>> --Fireweed
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From:
>>>> "Matt Signore" <mpsignore at gmail.com>
>>>> 
>>>> To:
>>>> "Mary Kwart" <mkwart at gci.net>
>>>> Cc:
>>>> "pct-l" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>>> Sent:
>>>> Tue, 10 Sep 2013 08:02:37 -0500
>>>> Subject:
>>>> Re: [pct-l] Isobutane Canister performance
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I hope the outside temperature stays the same for all your hikes. Same
>>>> with the water temperature before being put on the stove.  Make sure to
>>>> stay at the same elevation for every meal.  Otherwise you will find all
>>>> your calculations are unreliable in other conditions.  Just a few
>>>> considerations.
>>>> 
>>>> Matt Signore
>>>> pcthandbook.com
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, all:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just finished hiking the Oregon section of the PCT and finally got
>>>>> to definitively figure out how much fuel I use. I packed an MSR
>>>>> isobutane cartridge that had an 8 oz net weight. I boiled 1 3/4 cup of
>>>>> water daily and put the boiling water in a freezer ziplock with the
>>>>> food in a cozy to cook. I used a snow peak canister stove attachment
>>>>> and a titanium pot. It took 6.1 grams of fuel to boil 1 3/4 cup water.
>>>>> I still had about a quarter of the fuel canister left after I reached
>>>>> the Washington border. Now I know how to gage what's left in all my
>>>>> partially used canisters at home. I can get about 37 days of 1 boil a
>>>>> day from a larger MSR canister.
>>>>> --Fireweed
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Matt Signore
>>>> pcthandbook.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Matt Signore
>>> pcthandbook.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Matt Signore
>> pcthandbook.com
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