[pct-l] Bag/Quilt Warmth

Tue Jul 19 10:01:05 CDT 2011

Sometimes when people ask me how they
can protect their camp from bears I kid them by saying, “Use peanut butter –
just smear it on someone else’s tent.

That's some of the best bad advice I've read on this list and justifies my
staying subscribed even though it required endless screening of email.

Thanks SteelEye,

Swope

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 9:56 AM, CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net> wrote:

> *“I think perhaps you like the accumulation of "human smell" inside your
> bag
> because you believe that it keeps the wild bears away. . . . . . . . and,
> you save the weight of the mothballs that I carry.”   *MendoRider
>
> Good morning, MendoRider,
>
> **
>
> Guilty as charged, but it’s not because I like human smell:  I’m just doing
> my part to provide a 100%, all-natural, environmentally-friendly bear
> deterrent alternative in lieu of a chemical slam-dunk like mothballs.
>
> I have never used mothballs – nor shall I – and I’ve also never seen any
> technical evidence demonstrating that they do more than provide the user
> with confidence – indeed like a charm.  What I do know is:  1) You USE
> mothballs and have not been bothered by wild bears, while, 2) I DO NOT use
> mothballs and have not been bothered by bears.  From that, my guess is the
> deterring factor is human scent rather than mothballs.
>
> Among habituated park bears I use an approved ‘can so I don’t much care if
> they are not deterred by human smell, but I don’t believe mothballs would
> be
> effective against them either.  I have trouble imagining a park bear
> thinking, “I’m really hungry, and there in camp is a 15-pound sack of the
> richest and sweetest, most Calorie-dense food imaginable, but I’m so upset
> about that dozen mothballs that have to leave the area.  I guess I’ll just
> go eat some grass.”
>
> There’s one other slim possibility:  Sometimes when people ask me how they
> can protect their camp from bears I kid them by saying, “Use peanut butter
> –
> just smear it on someone else’s tent.”  Similarly, it may only be necessary
> to use mothballs to slightly deter the bear; hoping to fend him off to some
> adjacent camper’s food, but considering a bear’s appetite I doubt that
> would
> work.
>
> Finally, having been raised in an era then people used them a lot, I don’t
> use mothballs because I really dislike the smell.  In spite of that, if I
> were on the trail and came upon a pizza surrounded by 1,000 pounds of moth
> balls, I would still grab the pizza and leave.
>
> Similarly, I don’t use odor-proof Ziplocs (OP-Sacks).  I have some but
> haven’t really tested them for the same reason as I don’t use
> mothballs.  Besides,
> I don’t cache food.  As a hiker I resupply from towns and keep the grub in
> my control.  My suspicion is they aren’t as effective as they advertise.
>  If
> they were that good against bears – who reportedly have a sense of smell
> magnitudes better than the best dog – all of the OP-Sack production would
> probably be sucked-up by smugglers using them to fool drug-sniffing dogs at
> the border.
>
> Enjoy your hike this season,
>
> Steel-Eye
>
> -Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
>
> -http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
>
> -http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi Steel-Eye,
> >
> > I haven't experienced the problem that you describe.  You must move
> around
> > in your sleep more than I do. The liner definitely helps to keep the
> > inside of my bag clean. And I do rinse it out and take a shower fairly
> often
> > while on the trail. Since I travel on the PCT with a horse-companion, we
> > mostly live on the trail.  I try to reach camp early to give Primo plenty
> > of time to graze.  I also take my "0" days near the trail (preferably out
> of
> > sight of it) rather than where the hikers camp.  I think perhaps you like
> > the accumulation of "human smell" inside your bag because you believe
> > that it keeps the wild bears away. . . . . . . . and, you save the
> *weight
> > * of the mothballs that I carry.
> >
> > I say, keep on doing whatever works for you.
> >
> > MendoRider
> >
> >  *From:* CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
> > *To:* Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> > *Cc:* "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > *Sent:* Monday, July 18, 2011 8:09 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [pct-l] Bag/Quilt Warmth
> >
> >  Good evening, MendoRider,
> > I don’t know how you do it.  Because people – apparently people who sell
> > the things -- say they are a good idea, at various times I’ve tried a
> > flannel bag liner, a silk bag liner, and a nylon bag liner.
>  Unfortunately,
> > as I move around inside the bag at night they all ended up getting
> twisted
> > around me like a cocoon around a caterpillar.  I even had one equipped
> > with little ties to attach it along the zipper-edges of the bag and it
> > REALLY got me twisted.  About 1 hour into the first night I used that
> > thing I ripped it out and never used it again.
> > I also question the supposed gains in insulating value.  I’m a big
> > supporter of using the loft dimension for judging insulation.  For me the
> > critical areas for insulation are where the bag/robe drapes over my
> shoulder
> > and upper arm, and over my hip and upper thigh. The popular, thin liners
> > will be trapped between my body and the inside of the bag, adding
> > approximately 0.0015 inches of loft which hardly seems to justify the
> > associated 4-5 ounces of weight increase.
> > However, some people like them – and they probably do keep the bag
> cleaner
> > – so give one a try.  For me, I’ve been there, done that, and survived
> the
> > aggravation
> > Steel-Eye
> > -Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
> > -http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
> > -http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Edward Anderson <
> mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >
> > The best combination is to bring a 20 degree bag and also a 4.7 ounce
> silk
> > sleeping bag liner. That's what I bring.  Then, effectively, you have a
> 10
> > degree bag and a 30 degree bag as well as the 20 degree bag.  The liner
> is
> > rated at 9.5 degrees of warmth.  Sleep in just liner on top of your bag
> on a
> > warm night. Use the liner on a cold night.  The liner keeps the inside of
> > your bag clean and is easy to rinse and dries quickly.
> >
> >
> > MendoRider
> > From: Austin Williams <austinwilliams123 at gmail.com>
> > To: John Abela <abela at johnabela.com>; pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bag/Quilt Warmth
> >
> > According to the polls (http://planyourhike.com/polls/), 20 degrees F
> > seems
> > to be the most popular.
> >
> > I personally used a 15 degree Marmot Helium (~2lbs) and loved it.
> >
> > Austin Williams
> >
> >
> >
> > www.PlanYourHike.com <http://www.planyourhike.com/> <
> > http://www.planyourhike.com/>
> > Info on PCT Gear, Resupply Points, Maps, Thru hiking Movies, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 8:58 PM, John Abela <abela at johnabela.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > I just wanted to throw out a question and see what everybody feels
> > > about the issue of what temp bag/quilt you feel you should would use
> > > on the PCT if you were to (re)hike it in the next year or two.
> > >
> > > I realize that some folks sleep warm and some sleep cold, so my
> > > question is here is specifically what would *you* use?
> > >
> > > I also realize that a person could take a 40 degree bag and use it in
> > > combination with a WM/MB down jacket/pants to get a sub-freezing
> > > rating, so if you feel that is what you would do, by all means, share
> > > that as well.
> > >
> > > I will admit that, for me, this is perhaps one of the hardest issues I
> > > face each time I am planning a trip. I am often torn between whether I
> > > should take my highly beloved MontBell UL SuperSpiral #3 (a 30f bag)
> > > or my Nunatak Arc Ghost (32f quilt). I really really love my MBULSS
> > > but at 21 ounces verses 13 ounces for my Arc, its often a hard choice
> > > for me unless I know for sure its going to get sub freezing, at which
> > > point the MBULSS goes w/o hesitation.
> > >
> > > So, anyway, just wondering "if you were going to hike the PCT next
> > > year, which temperature bag would you take?"
> > >
> > > This is not a "what brand/model bag/quilt would you take"... but
> > > rather a "what temperature bag/quilt would you take" question - I
> > > think that is more important than the name on the bag/quilt, eh!
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > John
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