[pct-l] Bag/Quilt Warmth

Tue Jul 19 09:56:00 CDT 2011

*“I think perhaps you like the accumulation of "human smell" inside your bag
because you believe that it keeps the wild bears away. . . . . . . . and,
you save the weight of the mothballs that I carry.”   *MendoRider

Good morning, MendoRider,

**

Guilty as charged, but it’s not because I like human smell:  I’m just doing
my part to provide a 100%, all-natural, environmentally-friendly bear
deterrent alternative in lieu of a chemical slam-dunk like mothballs.

I have never used mothballs – nor shall I – and I’ve also never seen any
technical evidence demonstrating that they do more than provide the user
with confidence – indeed like a charm.  What I do know is:  1) You USE
mothballs and have not been bothered by wild bears, while, 2) I DO NOT use
mothballs and have not been bothered by bears.  From that, my guess is the
deterring factor is human scent rather than mothballs.

Among habituated park bears I use an approved ‘can so I don’t much care if
they are not deterred by human smell, but I don’t believe mothballs would be
effective against them either.  I have trouble imagining a park bear
thinking, “I’m really hungry, and there in camp is a 15-pound sack of the
richest and sweetest, most Calorie-dense food imaginable, but I’m so upset
about that dozen mothballs that have to leave the area.  I guess I’ll just
go eat some grass.”

There’s one other slim possibility:  Sometimes when people ask me how they
can protect their camp from bears I kid them by saying, “Use peanut butter –
just smear it on someone else’s tent.”  Similarly, it may only be necessary
to use mothballs to slightly deter the bear; hoping to fend him off to some
adjacent camper’s food, but considering a bear’s appetite I doubt that would
work.

Finally, having been raised in an era then people used them a lot, I don’t
use mothballs because I really dislike the smell.  In spite of that, if I
were on the trail and came upon a pizza surrounded by 1,000 pounds of moth
balls, I would still grab the pizza and leave.

Similarly, I don’t use odor-proof Ziplocs (OP-Sacks).  I have some but
haven’t really tested them for the same reason as I don’t use
mothballs.  Besides,
I don’t cache food.  As a hiker I resupply from towns and keep the grub in
my control.  My suspicion is they aren’t as effective as they advertise.  If
they were that good against bears – who reportedly have a sense of smell
magnitudes better than the best dog – all of the OP-Sack production would
probably be sucked-up by smugglers using them to fool drug-sniffing dogs at
the border.

Enjoy your hike this season,

Steel-Eye

-Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965

-http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye

-http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hi Steel-Eye,
>
> I haven't experienced the problem that you describe.  You must move around
> in your sleep more than I do. The liner definitely helps to keep the
> inside of my bag clean. And I do rinse it out and take a shower fairly often
> while on the trail. Since I travel on the PCT with a horse-companion, we
> mostly live on the trail.  I try to reach camp early to give Primo plenty
> of time to graze.  I also take my "0" days near the trail (preferably out of
> sight of it) rather than where the hikers camp.  I think perhaps you like
> the accumulation of "human smell" inside your bag because you believe
> that it keeps the wild bears away. . . . . . . . and, you save the *weight
> * of the mothballs that I carry.
>
> I say, keep on doing whatever works for you.
>
> MendoRider
>
>  *From:* CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
> *To:* Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 18, 2011 8:09 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [pct-l] Bag/Quilt Warmth
>
>  Good evening, MendoRider,
> I don’t know how you do it.  Because people – apparently people who sell
> the things -- say they are a good idea, at various times I’ve tried a
> flannel bag liner, a silk bag liner, and a nylon bag liner.  Unfortunately,
> as I move around inside the bag at night they all ended up getting twisted
> around me like a cocoon around a caterpillar.  I even had one equipped
> with little ties to attach it along the zipper-edges of the bag and it
> REALLY got me twisted.  About 1 hour into the first night I used that
> thing I ripped it out and never used it again.
> I also question the supposed gains in insulating value.  I’m a big
> supporter of using the loft dimension for judging insulation.  For me the
> critical areas for insulation are where the bag/robe drapes over my shoulder
> and upper arm, and over my hip and upper thigh. The popular, thin liners
> will be trapped between my body and the inside of the bag, adding
> approximately 0.0015 inches of loft which hardly seems to justify the
> associated 4-5 ounces of weight increase.
> However, some people like them – and they probably do keep the bag cleaner
> – so give one a try.  For me, I’ve been there, done that, and survived the
> aggravation
> Steel-Eye
> -Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
> -http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
> -http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> The best combination is to bring a 20 degree bag and also a 4.7 ounce silk
> sleeping bag liner. That's what I bring.  Then, effectively, you have a 10
> degree bag and a 30 degree bag as well as the 20 degree bag.  The liner is
> rated at 9.5 degrees of warmth.  Sleep in just liner on top of your bag on a
> warm night. Use the liner on a cold night.  The liner keeps the inside of
> your bag clean and is easy to rinse and dries quickly.
>
>
> MendoRider
> From: Austin Williams <austinwilliams123 at gmail.com>
> To: John Abela <abela at johnabela.com>; pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bag/Quilt Warmth
>
> According to the polls (http://planyourhike.com/polls/), 20 degrees F
> seems
> to be the most popular.
>
> I personally used a 15 degree Marmot Helium (~2lbs) and loved it.
>
> Austin Williams
>
>
>
> www.PlanYourHike.com <http://www.planyourhike.com/> <
> http://www.planyourhike.com/>
> Info on PCT Gear, Resupply Points, Maps, Thru hiking Movies, etc.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 8:58 PM, John Abela <abela at johnabela.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I just wanted to throw out a question and see what everybody feels
> > about the issue of what temp bag/quilt you feel you should would use
> > on the PCT if you were to (re)hike it in the next year or two.
> >
> > I realize that some folks sleep warm and some sleep cold, so my
> > question is here is specifically what would *you* use?
> >
> > I also realize that a person could take a 40 degree bag and use it in
> > combination with a WM/MB down jacket/pants to get a sub-freezing
> > rating, so if you feel that is what you would do, by all means, share
> > that as well.
> >
> > I will admit that, for me, this is perhaps one of the hardest issues I
> > face each time I am planning a trip. I am often torn between whether I
> > should take my highly beloved MontBell UL SuperSpiral #3 (a 30f bag)
> > or my Nunatak Arc Ghost (32f quilt). I really really love my MBULSS
> > but at 21 ounces verses 13 ounces for my Arc, its often a hard choice
> > for me unless I know for sure its going to get sub freezing, at which
> > point the MBULSS goes w/o hesitation.
> >
> > So, anyway, just wondering "if you were going to hike the PCT next
> > year, which temperature bag would you take?"
> >
> > This is not a "what brand/model bag/quilt would you take"... but
> > rather a "what temperature bag/quilt would you take" question - I
> > think that is more important than the name on the bag/quilt, eh!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John
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