[pct-l] Rx Vytorin

[Eric]

Sym,

Lipid hypotheis definitively disproven:
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Does-Cholesterol-Cause-Heart-Disease-Myth.html#conclusion
http://michaelpollan.com/interviews/michael-pollan-debunks-food-myths/


I definitely agree about the impact CAFO animals have as well as the cruel
treatment they get; it's not a good thing.  I don't see veganism as a
healthy diet as there has never been a vegan culture in the world.

I'd give cat a try. Maybe not dog. But yes, we all draw the line somewhere.

Regards,
Eric

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Sym Blanchard <symbiosis222 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Eric,
>
> I agree with most of what you say.
>
> Per my statement below: "while eating saturated fats is most likely bad",
> I never said it has been absolutely proven (like trans-fats).  At one time,
> this was a slam dunk, but I totally agree that it is now in question.
> However, there is still a lot of circumstantial evidence that certain types
> of saturated fat increase the probability of heart disease.  The research
> continues...
>
> While it is more difficult to get all your protein, vitamins, and minerals
> by going totally vegan (especially in our culture), it is very possible.
> The "hassle" factor is one reason that I also eat fish, dairy, and eggs.
>
>  There are a lot of other reasons for not eating animal products besides
> our personal health:  environmental impacts (the amount of water required
> and hiking trails  torn up from cattle, increased methane in the atmosphere,
> increase use of antibiotics, etc.) as well as the cruel treatment we often
> give to the poor animals whom we eat and make use of their bodies.
>
> I think we all gotta draw the line somewhere.  I choose my line and you
> choose yours.  I imagine that you do not eat cats or dogs.  Why not?  Many
> people do.  It is kind of an arbitrary decision...
>
> Sym
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Eric <johner27 at evergreen.edu> wrote:
>
>> Sorry to bust your bubble, but the lipid hypothesis is false. There is no
>> correlation between increased intake in saturated fat and increased
>> cholesterol.  However, you hit the nail on the head with the bad veggie
>> foods, which is what many vegetarians and vegans subsist on, sadly. These
>> foods, along with other grains and compounded with the chemicals such as MSG
>> in processed foods, are the real culprit in cholesterol levels, obesity, and
>> type 2 diabetes that is so prevalent nowadays.
>>
>> Going vegetarian and eating REAL FOOD is a good way to reduce cholesterol,
>> but you're losing a huge range of vitamins and minerals offered by animal
>> meats.  Organ meats are in face the most nutrient dense, and as you said,
>> grass-fed and open range organic animals are the way to go.  Combining these
>> healthy sources of protein with vegetables, nuts, seeds, dairy (if you can
>> process it) and some fruits and berries seems to be the best way to go; why
>> lose a whole food group?
>>
>> Fat calories are generally not a problem when consumed with protein, as
>> the combination of these two leads to sustained satiety.  Other than that, I
>> agree completely with you :) Basic idea: eat REAL food!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>   On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Sym Blanchard <symbiosis222 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Yoshi,
>>> I believe the study you referenced which showed that some vegetarian
>>> foods raised the bad LDL cholesterol was based on people eating a lot of
>>> bad
>>> vegetarian foods, such as potato chips, french fries, white rice, white
>>> flour, sugar, candy, deep fried vegetables, cake, hydrogenized vegetable
>>> oils, soft drinks, etc.
>>>
>>> Eating good vegetarian foods such as whole fresh fruit, vegetables, nuts,
>>> seeds, legumes, and whole grains have consistently shown to lower bad LDL
>>> cholesterol and raise good HDL cholesterol.  Choosing foods to get a good
>>> ratio between Omega 3 fatty acids and Omega 6 fatty acids will also have
>>> a
>>> good affect.
>>>
>>> I agree that many animal foods, such as fish, shrimp, squid, eel, etc.
>>> have
>>> lots of Omega 3 fatty acids and will help cholesterol levels.  And
>>> although
>>> I don't eat any land animals, I understand that wild game and some cuts
>>> of
>>> appropriately raised land animals can be good as well (grass fed,
>>> open-range, non-steroidal, etc.).
>>>
>>> I don't think the amount of the good fat is a problem, except that fat is
>>> high in calories and so must be balanced with other foods and exercise.
>>> Studies have shown that eating lots of mono and poly-unsaturated fats is
>>> generally good, while eating saturated fats is most likely bad (but there
>>> is
>>> still controversy, especially with medium-chain saturated fats like
>>> coconut
>>> oil), and trans-fat is definitely bad.
>>>
>>> But eating bad animal foods, such as hamburgers, hot dogs, deli meats,
>>> prime
>>> rib, Chicken McNuggets, etc. usually have lots of saturated fats, which
>>> causes the body to create the bad LDL cholesterol.  It is my
>>> understanding
>>> that our cholesterol levels come 80% from our own bodies and 20% from
>>> outside sources.  So it is better to minimize eating bad fats, which come
>>> mainly from land animals.  Even though eggs have lots of cholesterol, I
>>> think they are still very healthy because they result in very little
>>> affect
>>> on cholesterol levels.
>>>
>>> I totally agree with you that the use of Statins only lowers the bad LDL
>>> cholesterol and overall cholesterol, but has not been shown to have a
>>> good effect on heart disease.   A relationship between the good HDL
>>> cholesterol and the total cholesterol/HDL ratio of less than 3 has been
>>> shown to have a very positive effect.
>>>
>>> So Melinda's outstandingly great HDL cholesterol of 80 (I am impressed)
>>> gives her a great cholesterol ratio. I am very proud of my 66 HDL and a
>>> total cholesterol 139.
>>>
>>> I think it is so important to eat whole natural foods, do cardio
>>> exercise,
>>> lift weights, get enough sleep, manage stress, avoid environmental
>>> toxins,
>>> indulge in CHD, and try to miminize the "quick-fix" medicines that we are
>>> constantly being fed because so few people want to do the right things to
>>> begin with.
>>>
>>> Just not part of our American culture...yet.  Hopefully we pick up some
>>> of
>>> the habits of your Okinawan bretheren.
>>>
>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>>
>>> Symbioisis
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 23
>>> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:53:28 +0900
>>> From: Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rx Vytorin
>>> To: Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, Amanda L Silvestri <aslive at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>       <AANLkTikBGkQ7UiOa3-adMRE5Ve6H3=HUTYW9-t+piwr6 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> Dear Amanda
>>>
>>> This topic is difficult for me, there are many technical terms and
>>> great disputes concerning the cholesterol. I will write very briefly,
>>> because I have enough time now.
>>>
>>> In Japan, there is a great dispute among doctors. I got a guideline of
>>> cholesterol control for longevity. But I cannot translate properly
>>> into English. I will try to translate very small parts from the
>>> guideline.
>>>
>>> According to the recent findings( from 2006 ), Statin (control drug )
>>> decreases LDL cholesterol, but it has no effect to  cardiovascular
>>> disease, and no effect to longevity. Then, the great dispute arise.
>>>
>>> The food intake of vegetable fat in place of  animal fat proved to
>>> increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer, and  sudden
>>> death. Dear Melanie, you need not avoid animal fat, of course you need
>>> pay attention to the total amount of fat. Lesser is better.
>>>
>>> The hypothesis of HDL-C and LDL-C in not supported by recent findings.
>>> In the general population, death rate of high LDL-C group is lower
>>> than low LDL-C group. The guideline stated that this hypothesis is not
>>> recommended to use.
>>>
>>> To prevent the cardiovascular disease, fish fat ( EPA ) proved to be
>>> effective. So, Melanie, eat fish sometime. I eat one in a week.
>>>
>>> In Japan, margarine is a product from vegetable oil, but margarine is
>>> proved to increase the risk of kidney trouble and cancer. So,
>>> margarine is not recommended.
>>>
>>> The guideline recommended the control technique of food to  the total
>>> cholesterol ( 280mm/dL) group and to LDL-C( 180 mg/dL ) group.
>>>
>>> Amanda, at least, you need second opinion.
>>> My recommendation is almost the same with Melanie. Avoid medication,
>>> Eat lesser fat, but need not to be a vegetarian. And do physical
>>> exercise regularly. Control your weight.
>>>
>>> No time now. bye.
>>> ___________________________________________________
>>> 2011/2/17 Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>:
>>> > Dear Amanda,
>>> >
>>> > My cholesterol was 230 so I only ate chicken or fish. ?When I went
>>> back a
>>> > year later it was 235. ?Then I became vegetarian but I did not eat any
>>> > cheese or animal fat of any kind. ?That means I could only drink non
>>> fat
>>> > milk and eat non fat yogurt and cottage cheese. ?It worked. ?I lowered
>>> my
>>> > cholesterol to 170. ?My "good" cholesterol was always high, 80 so 170
>>> is a
>>> > very good total for me.
>>> >
>>> > Consider managing your cholesterol by being vegetarian with non fat
>>> milk
>>> > products and only the egg whites. ?We are active and exercise so it
>>> should
>>> > work for you.
>>> >
>>> > Melanie
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Amanda L Silvestri
>>> <aslive at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> ?My doctor is think of putting me on Vytorin for cholesterol control
>>>    but
>>> >> said that a possible side effect could be muscle weakness. ?I am 59
>>> years
>>> >> old and hiking to Canada this summer. ?I am concerned about muscle
>>> >> weakness. ?I know you can't give out medical advice over the Internet
>>> and
>>> >> without seeing my blood work, but I would like to know if anyone has
>>> >> experienced muscle weakness on Vytorin.
>>> >>
>>> >> Shepherd
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget
>> us.  ~Henrik Tikkanen
>>
>> “The things you own end up owning you.”* -*Tyler Durden, *Fight Club*
>>
>> "The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a
>> monthly salary."—David Hieatt
>>
>>
>


-- 
Because we don't think about future generations, they will never forget us.
~Henrik Tikkanen

“The things you own end up owning you.”* -*Tyler Durden, *Fight Club*

"The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly
salary."—David Hieatt