[pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question

[Greg Mikol]

Bill--

I'm not sure exactly what you're replying to...

The denatured alcohol that is listed on the page you linked to is very 
definitely not low-VOC, and I don't see anything on their page that 
claims it is. If I'm missing something, please point it out to me.

The lacquer thinner listed just below it is indicated as low-VOC, and it 
is, because it is virtually all acetone. Despite technically being a 
VOC, the EPA exempts acetone from air pollution regulations due to the 
fact that acetone vapors do not readily form smog. But acetone burns 
slowly, dirtier than alcohol (yellow flame), and smells bad when it 
burns. But I suppose it might be possible to make a soda-can stove that 
used it.

Anyone who owns a soda-can type stove can try it for themselves 
(outdoors, on concrete, please!) and see where it gets them.

--Greg


On 4/3/2011 12:57 PM, Bill Burge wrote:
> It is also low VOC.
>
> Yes, checking this stuff on my phone is awkward.
>
> Bill Burge
> Typoed on my iPhone...
>
> On Apr 3, 2011, at 12:25 PM, "Donna Saufley"<dsaufley at sprynet.com>  wrote:
>
>> Greg, I hope you are right in your interpretation. There are also some
>> modifications in proposed amendments to the rule that you find on a search
>> that I could not ascertain were adopted. I'm certainly not an expert in law,
>> science, or labeling (deceptive or otherwise). The cans of denatured
>> recently donated are labeled "alcohol appliance fuel" "marine stove fuel"
>> and made no mention of solvent uses. For me the litmus test is whether or
>> not the hardware store can order the product. If they can't order it,
>> chances are good other retailers in the SCAQMD boundaries won't be able to
>> order it either.  Our dear Trish is a busy lady, but I will check to see if
>> she can order plain marine fuel, Heet, sterno, and esbits or other solid
>> fuel like trioxane.  I know she can't order fuel canisters because she's
>> tried that before.
>>
>> Maybe too the new lower VOC products might still be effective for our cat
>> can stoves. Going cookless is a great option if you're prepared to do so. I
>> confess I would really miss the creature comforts of hot tea and cleaning up
>> with warm water.  Yes, I'm a wussy hiker.
>>
>> L-Rod
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> On Behalf Of Greg Mikol
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 10:29 PM
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143&  Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> Bull Burge wrote:
>>> http://www.packserv.com/Content-Public/Products-By-Brand/Page.asp?iID=8
>>>
>>> These guys are providing a denatured alcohol that will pass the voc
>>> levels.
>>>
>>> I haven't been able to do good research on my phone, but automotive
>>> additives like HEET may not be covered by this based on their
>>> intended use.
>>>
>>> BillB Typoed on my iPhone...
>>
>>
>> Bill, I think you may have mis-read something on your iphone. This
>> company is making some vague claims about "biodegradable" and "95%
>> natural" and "renewable" for their denatured alcohol, but if you look at
>> the MSDS, it still is, fundamentally, alcohol. 90-95% ethanol, 5-10%
>> isopropyl alcohol, pretty typical denatured alcohol. ~800 g/L VOC.
>>
>> The simple alcohols (methyl, ethyl, propanol, isopropyl) are all VOC's.
>> Period. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is probably lying.
>>
>> However, in reading through Rule 1143, it appears as if denatured
>> alcohol could still be sold if it is explicitly labeled with a specific
>> end-use that is not as a solvent. (NOTE: I don't live in SoCal, and I am
>> neither an expert, nor a lawyer). For example, a 1-quart can of
>> denatured alcohol with a manufacturer's printed label which identifies
>> it for use as marine stove fuel only, and gives no other usage
>> instructions is OK, since it's designed to be burned = no VOC's. That
>> same quart, with a label that simply reads "Denatured Alcohol" or
>> "Shellac Thinner", with multiple uses listed, is not OK, since many of
>> those uses are designed for evaporation of the alcohol into the atmosphere.
>>
>> Just my interpretation, but it doesn't do any good for tracking down
>> fuel in the middle of nowhere. However, if there are a couple of
>> PCT-friendly stores at key locations that could be talked into stocking
>> "Marine Stove Fuel", properly labeled, that might help, in the future.
>>
>> My opinion is worth what you paid for it...
>>
>> --Greg
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