[pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question

Sun Apr 3 16:06:35 CDT 2011

The rule according to google; is no fires above 10,000 feet,  or in posted areas.  It is the burners obligation to know if a fire is legal... not the other way around ( but it's not like I've ever seen it enforced)

My bigger worry would be finding ample wood without messing up the ecosystem;  in the scaqmd areas wood grows very slowly,  and at low elevations will be hard to find at all

... Just don't go burning cholla ; ) and remember a lot of plants are noxious when burnt in the dessert.

Sent from my iPod

On 2011-04-03, at 3:09 PM, Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com> wrote:

> Which is silly, because, properly used, it's no less safe than any other
> stove, and any other stove, improperly used, is just as unsafe as wood fire.
> But I'll look into it, and besides, I'll have my alcohol stove along as
> well. Anyone have any clue as to where those sections might be? I think my
> fire permit says something about posting fire bans based on conditions, but
> are there areas that flat out don't allow wood fire?
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
>> Brandon,
>> There are many places along the PCT where open flames are not permitted. It
>> is my understanding that stoves that use wood, sticks, leaves, also fall
>> into that category. Check it out.
>> MendoRider
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>; pct-l at backcountry.net
>> *Sent:* Sat, April 2, 2011 1:30:01 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>> 
>> I'd go with wood. Already plan to hike with my lightweight homemade hobo
>> stove, to save on how much fuel I gotta carry. I agree with the
>> environmental side of the new rules, though the inconvenience is sure to be
>> felt along the Trail. But I wouldn't prefer switch to a fossil fuel
>> *and*throw-away cannisters.
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com
>>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Survey type Question,
>>> 
>>> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
>>> canister,  or would you try stoveless?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>> 
>>> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The rationale stated on their site:
>>>> 
>>>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
>>> wax,
>>>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>>> compounds
>>>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of
>> VOCs
>>> in
>>>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>>>> 
>>>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit
>> all
>>> of
>>>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>>>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two
>> years,
>>>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day.
>> That
>>> is
>>>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los
>> Angeles
>>>> County!" "
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>>>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
>>> beautiful
>>>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of
>> an
>>>> impact.
>>>> 
>>>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
>>> Heet
>>>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of
>> trail
>>> in
>>>> SoCal.
>>>> 
>>>> LR
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>>>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>>> 
>>>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>>>> dollars at work.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:
>>> pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>>>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>>>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>>> 
>>>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store.  The owner Trish,
>>> who
>>>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>>>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able
>> to
>>>> order any more.  She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>>> Rule
>>>> 1143 is the reason;  it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>>> district
>>>> boundaries  www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>>> through
>>>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>>> Mojave
>>>> floor at Hwy 138.  "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from
>> Consumer
>>>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>>> limit
>>>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>>> 25
>>>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>>>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>>> VOC:
>>>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>>> Can
>>>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet?  Or know if the new lower VOC products
>>> will
>>>> work in stoves?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this
>> rule,
>>> and
>>>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>>> other
>>>> areas.  Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult.  However, hikers
>>> may
>>>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>>> and
>>>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> L-Rod
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> ~ Moccasin
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> 
> 
> -- 
> ~ Moccasin
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