[pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question

Sun Apr 3 14:09:06 CDT 2011

Which is silly, because, properly used, it's no less safe than any other
stove, and any other stove, improperly used, is just as unsafe as wood fire.
But I'll look into it, and besides, I'll have my alcohol stove along as
well. Anyone have any clue as to where those sections might be? I think my
fire permit says something about posting fire bans based on conditions, but
are there areas that flat out don't allow wood fire?

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:

>  Brandon,
> There are many places along the PCT where open flames are not permitted. It
> is my understanding that stoves that use wood, sticks, leaves, also fall
> into that category. Check it out.
> MendoRider
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com>
> *To:* Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>; pct-l at backcountry.net
> *Sent:* Sat, April 2, 2011 1:30:01 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> I'd go with wood. Already plan to hike with my lightweight homemade hobo
> stove, to save on how much fuel I gotta carry. I agree with the
> environmental side of the new rules, though the inconvenience is sure to be
> felt along the Trail. But I wouldn't prefer switch to a fossil fuel
> *and*throw-away cannisters.
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Survey type Question,
> >
> > If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
> > canister,  or would you try stoveless?
> >
> > Sent from my iPod
> >
> > On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The rationale stated on their site:
> > >
> > > "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
> > wax,
> > > emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
> > compounds
> > > (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of
> VOCs
> > in
> > > the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
> > >
> > > "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit
> all
> > of
> > > us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
> > > Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two
> years,
> > > the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day.
> That
> > is
> > > the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los
> Angeles
> > > County!" "
> > >
> > > I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
> > > statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
> > beautiful
> > > planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of
> an
> > > impact.
> > >
> > > It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
> > Heet
> > > and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of
> trail
> > in
> > > SoCal.
> > >
> > > LR
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
> > > To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> > > Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> > >
> > > Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
> > > dollars at work.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:
> > pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> > > On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
> > > To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> > > Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> > >
> > > This morning we stopped by our local hardware store.  The owner Trish,
> > who
> > > has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
> > > alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able
> to
> > > order any more.  She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
> > Rule
> > > 1143 is the reason;  it bans numerous paint solvents within their
> > district
> > > boundaries  www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
> > through
> > > SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
> > Mojave
> > > floor at Hwy 138.  "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from
> Consumer
> > > Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
> > limit
> > > of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
> > 25
> > > g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
> > > multi-purpose solvents."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
> > VOC:
> > > 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
> >  Can
> > > anyone verify the VOC of Heet?  Or know if the new lower VOC products
> > will
> > > work in stoves?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this
> rule,
> > and
> > > I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
> > other
> > > areas.  Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult.  However, hikers
> > may
> > > not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
> > and
> > > other regions may be considering similar bans.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > L-Rod
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>
>
> --
> ~ Moccasin
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