[pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question

Sun Apr 3 18:51:58 CDT 2011

It takes quite a small amout of wood in an actual wood stove; cooking over
an open campfire uses way more and therefore impacts of fire wood collection
are worse. I've gotten by in the desert in Utah with just a couple handfulls
of little twigs.
But no one need worry, I'm not a fire nut or anything, and don't know how
much I'll end up using the little hobo stove anyways. I sure as heck don't
want to be responsible for a wildfire.

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>wrote:

> The rule according to google; is no fires above 10,000 feet,  or in posted
> areas.  It is the burners obligation to know if a fire is legal... not the
> other way around ( but it's not like I've ever seen it enforced)
>
> My bigger worry would be finding ample wood without messing up the
> ecosystem;  in the scaqmd areas wood grows very slowly,  and at low
> elevations will be hard to find at all
>
> ... Just don't go burning cholla ; ) and remember a lot of plants are
> noxious when burnt in the dessert.
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On 2011-04-03, at 3:09 PM, Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Which is silly, because, properly used, it's no less safe than any other
> > stove, and any other stove, improperly used, is just as unsafe as wood
> fire.
> > But I'll look into it, and besides, I'll have my alcohol stove along as
> > well. Anyone have any clue as to where those sections might be? I think
> my
> > fire permit says something about posting fire bans based on conditions,
> but
> > are there areas that flat out don't allow wood fire?
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Brandon,
> >> There are many places along the PCT where open flames are not permitted.
> It
> >> is my understanding that stoves that use wood, sticks, leaves, also fall
> >> into that category. Check it out.
> >> MendoRider
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >> *From:* Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com>
> >> *To:* Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>; pct-l at backcountry.net
> >> *Sent:* Sat, April 2, 2011 1:30:01 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> >>
> >> I'd go with wood. Already plan to hike with my lightweight homemade hobo
> >> stove, to save on how much fuel I gotta carry. I agree with the
> >> environmental side of the new rules, though the inconvenience is sure to
> be
> >> felt along the Trail. But I wouldn't prefer switch to a fossil fuel
> >> *and*throw-away cannisters.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Survey type Question,
> >>>
> >>> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use
> a
> >>> canister,  or would you try stoveless?
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPod
> >>>
> >>> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The rationale stated on their site:
> >>>>
> >>>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
> >>> wax,
> >>>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
> >>> compounds
> >>>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of
> >> VOCs
> >>> in
> >>>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
> >>>>
> >>>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit
> >> all
> >>> of
> >>>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
> >>>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two
> >> years,
> >>>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day.
> >> That
> >>> is
> >>>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los
> >> Angeles
> >>>> County!" "
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind
> their
> >>>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
> >>> beautiful
> >>>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of
> >> an
> >>>> impact.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
> >>> Heet
> >>>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of
> >> trail
> >>> in
> >>>> SoCal.
> >>>>
> >>>> LR
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
> >>>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> >>>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> >>>>
> >>>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
> >>>> dollars at work.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:
> >>> pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
> >>>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> >>>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> >>>>
> >>>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store.  The owner Trish,
> >>> who
> >>>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
> >>>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able
> >> to
> >>>> order any more.  She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
> >>> Rule
> >>>> 1143 is the reason;  it bans numerous paint solvents within their
> >>> district
> >>>> boundaries  www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
> >>> through
> >>>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
> >>> Mojave
> >>>> floor at Hwy 138.  "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from
> >> Consumer
> >>>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
> >>> limit
> >>>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit
> of
> >>> 25
> >>>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
> >>>> multi-purpose solvents."
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated)
> is
> >>> VOC:
> >>>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
> >>> Can
> >>>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet?  Or know if the new lower VOC products
> >>> will
> >>>> work in stoves?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this
> >> rule,
> >>> and
> >>>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
> >>> other
> >>>> areas.  Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult.  However,
> hikers
> >>> may
> >>>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the
> district,
> >>> and
> >>>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> L-Rod
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ~ Moccasin
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> > --
> > ~ Moccasin
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-- 
~ Moccasin