[pct-l] TP ???

[Stephen]

Torty I'm still on the fence about what I think of these groups. 
Traditionally I have been anti-large group and by that I mean more than two. 
And traditionally the SC has a well established history of mega groups, 
giga-groups even, huge ! But everyone Imeet is ussually well intentioned and 
worth the time tostop and say hello.  But when I'm sitting on a remote 
summit and I see eight people wanderingup the peak and making all kinds of 
noise I have trouble fighting off an ingrained tendency to launch mystery 
rocks...
This is not too often, and I don't climb much anymore, but I still read the 
stories about SC'ers falling and killing themselves.  Imet a group 
scrambling up Mt Goode once and they snubbed me and acted as if they had 
some special propriety.  Not the whole group, but about have of eight or so 
folks.  IIRC I asked what was wrong with them folks and maybe a change of 
attitude was in order.  Now don't go getting the wrong idea.  Ussually I 
like meeting these folks and it's all good.  I could say much the same about 
the BSA or any number of groups, but every once in a while about once or 
twice a season, I seem to run into the arrogant few.  A couple years back I 
was enjoying a very peaceful time at a delicate ruins site in theUtah back 
country which was just gaining poularity unfortunately.  And while I'm there 
here come about 12 scouts and the additional supposed to be responsible 
adults, so about fifteen people, clammering down the opposite cliff.  OM@#$% 
who thought this would be a good idea, go to freakin Mesa Verde!!!  If you 
find me on the trail I have stories...
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tortoise" <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
To: "Stephen" <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>
Cc: <Pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???


Regrettably what you say about Sierra Club groups is more than an
isolated incident although for other reasons I have not done much with
SC outings recently.  There are some leaders who reject some
environmental ethics or just don't care.  Sad but true.

PS: I am a long time / life member of the SC.

Tortoise

<> He who finishes last, wins! <>



Stephen wrote:
> Good on you for calling them out, so long as there was no gun play.  About 
> five years ago I was waitng to meet a friend to hike out and climb Mt 
> Williamson, so decided to kill a couple days and went down and got a 
> permit for Whitney.  Loaded my huge 16lb pack and rambled up the trail to 
> upper trail camp, during the after noon storms and leaving at 5PM and 
> arriving just at dark.  I found a little tent flat, threw down my bivy, 
> made soup and realized the oder wasn't normal for the high country.  And 
> it wasn't the pit toilets as the wind was wrong.  I decided it had to be 
> from so much usage year in and year out of people getting up and peeing 
> around the flat, probably mostly at night. Later when the breeze died down 
> I was sure of it.  Mice were scurrying around all night.  The next morning 
> just as it was showing light and I was passing through the dynamited cable 
> section before ascending to Trail Crest I almost stepped in crap where 
> someone had left a dookey right in the middle of the rock trail, paper and 
> all.  However, this is why I tend to go to less popular areas where folks 
> who go there have a dfferent attittude and level of knowledge and 
> experience.  What I experienced on the Whitney trail didn't really 
> surprise me as unussual.  In fact it seemed more the norm.  I recently 
> visited a friend at Kern RIver.  I spent an afternoon along the river road 
> and what I saw there did surprise me.  Not just a couple palces, but 
> everywhere the road and river were litterally lined with TP and craps. And 
> tell me if this surprises you, some of the worst back country etiquette I 
> have witnessed have been Sierra Club groups.  Not all, and probably the 
> majority mean well, and I have had meny a pleasant trailside talk with 
> these folks, but I have also cleaned up after them and so forth.  Fly in 
> from New York, meet the group, hike for five or six days and go back to 
> New York probably never to return.  Good for you, but take your crap with 
> you.
>
>
>