[pct-l] TP ???
Stephen
reddirt2 at earthlink.net
Sun Jan 25 15:09:59 CST 2009
Good on you for calling them out, so long as there was no gun play.
About five years ago I was waitng to meet a friend to hike out and climb Mt Williamson, so decided to kill a couple days and went down and got a permit for Whitney. Loaded my huge 16lb pack and rambled up the trail to upper trail camp, during the after noon storms and leaving at 5PM and arriving just at dark. I found a little tent flat, threw down my bivy, made soup and realized the oder wasn't normal for the high country. And it wasn't the pit toilets as the wind was wrong. I decided it had to be from so much usage year in and year out of people getting up and peeing around the flat, probably mostly at night. Later when the breeze died down I was sure of it. Mice were scurrying around all night. The next morning just as it was showing light and I was passing through the dynamited cable section before ascending to Trail Crest I almost stepped in crap where someone had left a dookey right in the middle of the rock trail, paper and all.
However, this is why I tend to go to less popular areas where folks who go there have a dfferent attittude and level of knowledge and experience. What I experienced on the Whitney trail didn't really surprise me as unussual. In fact it seemed more the norm. I recently visited a friend at Kern RIver. I spent an afternoon along the river road and what I saw there did surprise me. Not just a couple palces, but everywhere the road and river were litterally lined with TP and craps.
And tell me if this surprises you, some of the worst back country etiquette I have witnessed have been Sierra Club groups. Not all, and probably the majority mean well, and I have had meny a pleasant trailside talk with these folks, but I have also cleaned up after them and so forth. Fly in from New York, meet the group, hike for five or six days and go back to New York probably never to return. Good for you, but take your crap with you.
----- Original Message -----
From: patti kulesz
To: Will Hiltz ; Phil Newhouse ; Stephen
Cc: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
that's awesome...sounds like something I would do. I actually got into an argument with a couple in Ojai with their family (kids) b/c they peed about two feet from the water in their own site no less and left the paper right next to it. Mind you there was a pit toilet not even 200 yards from their site! When I mentioned to them that the water was for my drinking on the trail, they tried to deny it saying that someone else must have done it. Just one of the many reasons I try my hardest to stay away from much populated areas while camping and hiking. Keep the paper trail in the office...not in the back country!
patti
--- On Sun, 1/25/09, Stephen <reddirt2 at earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Stephen <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
To: "Will Hiltz" <will.hiltz at gmail.com>, "Phil Newhouse" <newhoupa1 at gmail.com>
Cc: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:43 AM
Oh no, let's do poopy rocks ! You brought it up. Just kidding, don't need
to do it.
This thread though makes me think some things are an issue and need to be
addressed. The popular trails in Seq/Kings are lined with TP. Seriously, I
see it everywhere. Often there is a rock on top of it.
Once a familly asked if Iwould look for a rain parka for them at thier last
camp and leaveon thier car atTH if I found it. Yeah I found it. I found it
right next to a big poop that could not have been the kid, and so left the
parka with a nice note on thier car. Unfortunately Iam really good at
finding things, on purpose, and accident. I've found everything but not
limited to my "Classic" knife, a PUR water filter, pack cover, pots and
pans, a 15ft piece of poly sheeting on Lamarck Col, tent stakes of course,
hankerchiefs, sandals, a few other knives .... and poop. Keep track of
your stuff and put brightcolored stringor something on your little items.
Always go back and take a second look where camped, or stop along the way.
And don't leave TP all over the hills !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Hiltz" <will.hiltz at gmail.com>
To: "Phil Newhouse" <newhoupa1 at gmail.com>
Cc: <Pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
> For those of you longer-time list members you might remember the "poopy
> rocks" thread. I won't subject you to that again but I agree with what
> several others have said:
>
> Burying TP, no matter what it looks like in your backyard, is not proper
> wilderness practice. If you must use TP, you must take it with you.
> Odor-proof plastic bags would be a good idea in bear country. If you
> can't
> stand the thought of carrying used TP, then use what nature gives you...
>
>
> YITOOD,
>
> Easy
>
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Phil Newhouse <newhoupa1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> People packing "it" out: what is the prescription for overnight storage
>> in
>> Bear Country?
>>
>> phil
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Michael Chamoun <nano.michael at gmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > Pack it out. that simple.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:15 PM, patti kulesz <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > well the dog poop is picked up b/c it's the law apparently...dog's
>> don't
>> > > eat organic and it keeps the natural critters away from their natural
>> > > habitat...in another words...they smell the dog poop and then stay
>> > > away
>> > form
>> > > where they should be....maybe we should start putting dog poop around
>> the
>> > > camps so the bears stay away..LOL JK
>> > >
>> > > patti
>> > >
>> > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, David Margavage <davidmargavage at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > From: David Margavage <davidmargavage at gmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
>> > > To: "sue.kettles at comcast.net" <sue.kettles at comcast.net>,
>> > > Pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:51 PM
>> > >
>> > > I think they pick up the dog poop so we don't step in it I think?
>> > > But
>> > I'm
>> > > with you about biodegradable paper.
>> > >
>> > > On 1/24/09, sue.kettles at comcast.net <sue.kettles at comcast.net> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Please don't jump all over me, because I really would like to know.
>> In
>> > > 20
>> > > > years of backpacking, I have never had that happen... digging a
>> > > > hole
>> > and
>> > > > finding something. Guess I'm just lucky. When I did a trial bury
>> > > > of
>> > TP
>> > > in
>> > > > my back yard, in the fall, by spring, it was pretty well
>> disintegrated.
>> > > (I
>> > > > do live in Oregon - so it rains alot here) It is a tree source
>> > > > after
>> > > all...
>> > > > and if its not perfumed and colored, whats the big deal burying it
>> the
>> > > right
>> > > > depth if in the right terrain?? I don't want to be ignorant, but I
>> > don't
>> > > > want to do something that is maybe, at this moment, the new "right
>> > way".
>> > > > Like people picking up their dog crap in plastic bags and putting
>> > > > it
>> in
>> > > the
>> > > > garbage can? How is that supposed to help the environment when it
>> will
>> > > take
>> > > > much longer to decompose in a landfill in that plastic baggy.
>> Someone
>> > > with
>> > > > knowlege,...please, I'd love to understand.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > HJ
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "patti kulesz" <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>
>> > > > To: afishnamedcarl at gmail.com, pct-l at backcountry.net, "AsABat"
>> > > > <AsABat at 4Jeffrey.Net>
>> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:29:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>> > Eastern
>> > > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
>> > > >
>> > > > it really sux too when one tries to find a spot to go and digs up a
>> > bunch
>> > > > of someone else's TP and ...well u know....
>> > > >
>> > > > patti
>> > > >
>> > > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, AsABat <AsABat at 4Jeffrey.Net> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > From: AsABat <AsABat at 4Jeffrey.Net>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
>> > > > To: afishnamedcarl at gmail.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 5:32 PM
>> > > >
>> > > > It's very easy to put the used TP in a ziploc-type back and pack it
>> > out.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Burying it in the hole gets ugly when a critter digs it up (yes,
>> > > > they
>> > > > do), or rain washes just enough soil away to reveal the TP
>> > > > streamer.
>> > > >
>> > > > Burning it is a really bad idea. I thruhiker started a wildfire a
>> > couple
>> > > > years ago doing that.
>> > > >
>> > > > AsABat
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > What's the deal with TP. Pack in pack out or leave it in the
>> whole.
>> > > > > Obviously taking it out is better but no one likes carring used
>> > > > > tp
>> > > > with
>> > > > > them.
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
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