[pct-l] dogs on the trail
Lucas Zoucha
jalukool at gmail.com
Tue Feb 17 10:34:57 CST 2009
Andrew, I totally agree with you. I am in disbelief that this is even
being discussed in the manner it is. There are many dangers to keep
in mind while hiking the PCT and I for one am not at all worried
about dogs or dog owners. I think it should be encouraged. This is a
vast trail system with plenty of room for everyone. Dogs have the
right to roam freely out in nature just as people do.
People, if you want to bring your dog, well then, bring your dog.
Always do your research and and train appropriately. Don't let a few
dog fearing heathens scare you from enjoying some of the most
beautiful spots this side of the Mississippi with your best four
legged pal.
this forum should be used in a helpful, informative, positive manner
and not in a way that scares people away or from doing what they want
to do out on the trail.
Be kind to one another:)
Hike your own hike
If your hiking with your dog, Hike your dog's hike
well actually do what you want. but be respectful
p.s. I know the "dog fearing heathens" comment was a bit of a stab,
but I just woke up and Im crabby.
On Feb 17, 2009, at 7:21 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. SuperSecrets - Shelters for the 2009 Campaign (hiker97 at aol.com)
> 2. Re: Dogs on the trail (Andrew Jones)
> 3. Re: Map and Guide feedback request. (Trekker4 at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Thru-Ballooning the PCT (Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot
> com)
> 5. Re: Dogs on the trail (Bill)
> 6. Re: Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 92 (Scott Bryce)
> 7. Trail reports about downed trees (Trekker4 at aol.com)
> 8. Dogs on the trail (Wes Rose)
> 9. Re: Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 92 (Bill)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:03:59 -0500
> From: hiker97 at aol.com
> Subject: [pct-l] SuperSecrets - Shelters for the 2009 Campaign
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <8CB5F069170BFFA-CB0-CDB at FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I know thousands of hikers have been waiting for my pronouncements
> about shelter for the 2009 campaign.? My gear priorities in order
> of importance are; safety, comfort, light weight.? I guess a small
> ground footprint is important too when you are looking for that
> flat spot to set up camp.? You would be very surprised how tough
> this is sometimes.
>
> I do not like to be in a nylon prison in the Great Outdoors.? That
> does not make any sense to me at all.? So, that takes care of about
> 95% of today's shelters as not being acceptable.??I have to see
> everything around me when I am in my shelter.? This is super neat
> to be with Mother Nature.
>
> First, let me say that I think just simple cowboy style camping is
> best.? Just throw a blanket under a tree, roll up?and go to sleep.?
> Simple.? But on a long hike with weather, bugs, blowing sand, etc.,
> etc., this might not be best.? So, now what do we do?
>
> Getting in and out of the shelter easily is very important to me.?
> I have some medical issues that make entry and exit very
> important.? Tarps, bivys, and netting tents would meet our criteria
> in one fashion or another to be in the Great Outdoors and not be
> cut off from it in the traditional shelter.
>
> I have?used tarps in the high mountains and do not like them.? Too
> much wind/rain and breezes with wind chill issues for me - too much
> blocking of the views. ?Bivys are very nice, but you can have a
> nice light one person?netting tent for about the same weight and
> ground footprint.? Plus, you can protect your gear better in bad
> weather.
>
> So, that leaves me with a netting tent for the veiws and rainfly
> for the weather.? What are our options in this category?
>
> If you are super light weight, you should consider the
> www.SixMoonDesigns.com Gateway Cape and the Serenity netting
> shelter.? The netting shelter weighs about 7.5 ounces.? No bad with
> a nice entry and exit door.? I think the cape weighs in at around
> 10 ounces for weather protection.? One thing about netting shelters
> is that they cut the wind down to almost nothing inside.? Very
> nice.? Of course, there are other places to consider netting
> shelter combinations like?www.mountainlaureldesigns.com.? This has
> some cutting edge ideas too.?
>
> I am currently using a MSR Hubba netting tent with rain fly at
> about 2.5 pounds.? Very nice too.? I have carbon fiber poles to
> save?weight.? See www.fibraplex.com?for big weight savings on your
> shelter poles.? Very cool.? Remember, that super light weight gear
> is delicate and you have to treat it with more respect.? That is
> why I like the Hubba.? It is a little more robust and I am not
> going on any big hikes where I would have to consider gear weight
> more.
>
> Whatever you decide, just make sure you are safe in your shelter
> for your experience level and comfort needs.? Light weight should
> NOT be your first or only criteria.? This could get you into
> trouble, IMHO.? HYOH.
>
> Cheers, The Switch Back
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:15:28 -0600
> From: Andrew Jones <a.freddy.j at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <c75c07da0902170615u30f3fbb0yf6f8659dd3a8007d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Okay, you guys are freaking me out. Here's the deal: my wife and I are
> through hiking this summer, and the dog is coming with us. I know
> the issues
> with this - we've spent more time preparing for her being on the
> trail than
> ourselves. We know exactly where she is allowed to go and where she
> is not,
> what problems we may encounter (heat, water, etc.) and we've
> prepared for
> these. One thing we didn't anticipate is the enormity of the negative
> feelings towards her on the trail.
>
> She is a well-behaved dog that loves hiking, which she does
> entirely while
> attached to us by a 20 ft retractable lead, for her own safety. She
> usually
> will not even acknowledge other people on the trail, but does enjoy
> visiting
> with other dogs she meets - she has spent years living around our
> horses,
> and is used to all kinds of livestock. She is well trained,
> especially for
> the command of sit and stay, which she does well even at a distance
> from us.
> She will not hurt you, and will not be allowed to approach you
> unless you
> ask to visit with her.
>
> So please, if you see a young couple hiking north with a large red/
> orange
> hound, do not attempt to maim/kill/eat this well-loved and well-
> behaved dog
> or her owners. And please tone down the rhetoric, I WAS enjoying
> this list.
> Emphasis on WAS.
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:18:49 EST
> From: Trekker4 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Map and Guide feedback request.
> To: reddirt2 at earthlink.net, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <c4a.479144b3.36cc2149 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> When I see a post like this, it exasperates me. Reddirt, you have
> every
> right to ask for whatever you want on this list, but you're
> expecting others to
> do your homework, take a bunch of time explaining what can't be
> explained in
> an email, and clog up the list with explanations that are written
> elsewhere.
> If you're not willing to spend the book and map money, you
> shouldn't impose on
> others due to that decision; I don't know how you can afford to
> hike if you
> can't afford the basic info. "Hike your own hike." is a perhaps
> overused, but
> very, very true expression. I'm starting a new one: "Be
> responsible for your
> own hike."
> The PCT color topos are available on CD from More Than a Mile,
> partial
> others on the Inet, partly in the PCT Handbook(s), and, when
> completed, from
> the Forest Service. Black & white topos are in the Guidebooks; at
> the very
> least buy the Guidebook for whatever you want to hike!
> The Guidebooks are "old", but very little has changed; most
> corrections
> and changes are on the Wilderness Press site. Yogi's Handbook has
> a lot more
> than town info, and is just as valuable, with more up to date info
> about some
> things; her changes are on her site. The Databook is also very
> useful; it's
> on the Inet in .pdf, since it's possibly out of print at present.
> Jardine's
> PCT specific info is probably the most outdated.
>
> Did I mention that I'm occasionally opinionated?
> Bob "Trekker"
> Big Bend Desert Denizen
> Naturalized Citizen - Republic of Texas
>
>
>
> In a message dated 2/16/2009 8:45:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> reddirt2 at earthlink.net writes:
>
> I haven't purchased any guide literature or maps yet for the long
> section I
> am planning. VVR to Timberline OR.
> I read a couple reviews on the basic Pacific Crest Trail books and
> all
> suggest rather dated material. Also don't see the new PCT maps
> covering N.Cal
> that I would like to have. I know nothing of Yogi's book, but am
> under the
> impression it is more orientated towards towns and services
> available along the
> way. I'd like to know what others think so I don't have to buy a
> bunch of
> stuff and pick through it if it can be avoided. I have Jardine's
> book from back
> in the day which I have been using to set basic itenerary for
> myself and
> pick my resupplies. I'm familliar with the Sierra through to
> Sonora Pass, and
> those sections I have not hiked I have maps for. It's from there
> north I'd
> like to read up on and I understand there are some dry stretches
> besides Hat
> Creek Rim I need to be prepared for.
> So I'd just like hear some feedback from those familliar with
> what's out
> there.
> Resupply points I have been to or used are VVR, Tuolumne, Sierra
> City, Old
> Station, Burney Falls store.
> Thanks,
> Stephen
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-l at backcountry.net
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>
>
> **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can
> choose how
> to find them. Start with AOL Personals.
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:44:00 -0800
> From: Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com
> <Diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Ballooning the PCT
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <558062CF-05A6-46A5-83A0-2E1F7B69D7EE at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Thru-Ballooning? For goodness sake, Switchback, just hike the trail!
> Get rid of all that unnecessary weight with the extra spray bottles
> and other gadgets and use your god-given feet. I swear it really
> works!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:48:17 -0800
> From: "Bill" <BillBatch at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> To: "'Andrew Jones'" <a.freddy.j at gmail.com>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <67DD5F594CA4442CBDAA520A3109A186 at HomeOffice>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Andy,
>
> Be confident that there are many hikers that love dogs and actually
> really
> enjoy seeing them on the trail. We - errr - I mean they - have just
> learned over time not to chime in on such topics. You will run
> into far
> more people who ask to pet your dog and smile when they see the dog's
> zen-joy. You appear to know the rules, limitations, have a
> courteous mind,
> and a dog with solid history. You will be fine.
>
> I remember once being near Half Dome and waking under my tarp to a
> throng of
> singing birds. I lay there listening to all the chatter. I
> identified at
> least nine different calls. When I emerged from my tarp and looked
> for all
> those birds, I found all that chatter coming from only two birds.
> They sat
> in the same tree on opposite branches challenging each other with
> these
> remarkable variations in song. They could twitter, whistle, caw,
> and sing.
>
> I promise, you will have a wonderful time.
>
> Be well,
>
> Pink Gumby
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-
> bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Andrew Jones
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:15 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
>
> Okay, you guys are freaking me out. Here's the deal: my wife and I are
> through hiking this summer, and the dog is coming with us. I know
> the issues
> with this - we've spent more time preparing for her being on the
> trail than
> ourselves. We know exactly where she is allowed to go and where she
> is not,
> what problems we may encounter (heat, water, etc.) and we've
> prepared for
> these. One thing we didn't anticipate is the enormity of the negative
> feelings towards her on the trail.
>
> She is a well-behaved dog that loves hiking, which she does
> entirely while
> attached to us by a 20 ft retractable lead, for her own safety. She
> usually
> will not even acknowledge other people on the trail, but does enjoy
> visiting
> with other dogs she meets - she has spent years living around our
> horses,
> and is used to all kinds of livestock. She is well trained,
> especially for
> the command of sit and stay, which she does well even at a distance
> from us.
> She will not hurt you, and will not be allowed to approach you
> unless you
> ask to visit with her.
>
> So please, if you see a young couple hiking north with a large red/
> orange
> hound, do not attempt to maim/kill/eat this well-loved and well-
> behaved dog
> or her owners. And please tone down the rhetoric, I WAS enjoying
> this list.
> Emphasis on WAS.
>
> Andy
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:53:25 -0700
> From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 92
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <499ACF65.9050609 at scottbryce.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> David wrote:
>> I apologize to Bob. I mistakenly thought he was the one threatening
>> to carry an ice axe in the desert. I now see that it was someone
>> else ;-)
>
> Whether it was Bob or someone else, if you are attacked by a dog, you
> have the right to defend yourself, and do whatever you need to do to
> stop the attack.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:01:58 EST
> From: Trekker4 at aol.com
> Subject: [pct-l] Trail reports about downed trees
> To: christopher.kopp at gmail.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <c32.4a2cd34a.36cc2b66 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Be glad you're not in OR or WA. Last summer I reported to the PCTA
> over 200
> trees down in parts of OR, including a 100-200 tree pile that totally
> obscured some switchbacks going down to Sisters Mirror Lake. I
> doubt its all been
> cleared.
> Last Spring, the Communicator reported over 400 trees down
> just around
> Glacier Peak in WA. I still can't decide which of the 3 routes to
> take around
> Glacier Peak. The PCTA site doesn't have much info on the Glacier
> Peak
> progress, or even the basic info covered in the article. For
> instance, was the
> Suiattle River bridge rebuild started in 08, possibly per the
> article; will it be
> started in 09, definitely per the article; or has it fallen victim
> to the
> recession/depression or other artifacts of the federal government?
>
> Bob "Trekker"
> Big Bend Desert Denizen
> Naturalized Citizen - Republic of Texas
>
> Government cripples you, then hands you a crutch and says, 'See,
> if it
> wasn't for us, you couldn't walk.'
> -- Harry Browne
>
> "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see
> what it costs
> when its free."
> -- P. J. ORourke
>
>
>
> In a message dated 2/15/2009 10:47:24 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> christopher.kopp at gmail.com writes:
>
> I did Campo to Scissors in mid-January and the one place that stands
> out as having a tree down was at the Fred Cr. crossing south of Fred
> Canyon Rd. on map A6. There was another tree down south of Pioneer
> Mail picnic area maybe a half mile from the picnic area on map A8.
> I will also try to post this on postholer.com
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> **************You can't always choose whom you love, but you can
> choose how
> to find them. Start with AOL Personals.
> (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000002)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:21:38 -0800
> From: "Wes Rose" <wb104475 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> To: <a.freddy.j at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <4722E038C0674659AC5D011AD92E3F3E at rose>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> Your pooch is safe. The "dogs" referred to in the post are hot
> dogs, or as the
> Governator of the great state of California would say, "veeners".
> The four-legged
> variety are in danger of a pat on the head only.
>
> Best Success in '09,
>
> Wes
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:26:17 -0800
> From: "Bill" <BillBatch at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 92
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <C3BC273A78DD401992F84E2D01C8C159 at HomeOffice>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I like to hit them with my over-sized testicles.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-
> bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Scott Bryce
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:53 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 92
>
> David wrote:
>> I apologize to Bob. I mistakenly thought he was the one threatening
>> to carry an ice axe in the desert. I now see that it was someone
>> else ;-)
>
> Whether it was Bob or someone else, if you are attacked by a dog, you
> have the right to defend yourself, and do whatever you need to do to
> stop the attack.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 94
> *************************************
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