[pct-l] those bleeping stoves and their various fuels

[Tortoise]

sometimes perception overrides reality. :-(

----------
Tortoise

<> He who finishes last, wins! <>

I switched to Mac OSX rather than fight Windows
Using Mozilla Thunderbird  http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Track Wolf wrote:
> Get a Grip!
> 
> It is hard for me to grasp that so many are "addicted" to alcohol stoves.
> I've used them alot over the years, but only as a back-up for my sierra zip
> stove, and now I have one made of titanium.  What a wonderful contraption.
> I've been packing into the woods and mountains over 50 years.  I try to
> convince people about the ease and safety for the all around use of this
> stove in the wilderness.  But, mostly I run into arguments about how
> dangerous it is...that is just to ridiculous to even contemplate.  I think
> the alcoholics have been drinking their fuel.
> 
> TF
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/22/07, Georgi Heitman <bobbnweav at citlink.net> wrote:
>> L-Rod...
>> Thank you...as so often happens, you not only grasp the nature of the
>> problem, but know the right words to say to help explain same, and give some
>> suggestions.  I'm amazed at the curfuffle my post raised, and at the same
>> time very pleased...it seems to have set a bunch of people to
>> thinking.  Hopefully this thought process will carry into the woods.
>> As A Bat, I loved that you'd already been concerned enough to do some
>> testing.  Try throwing some dried grass clippings into your fire pit and
>> then spill some burning alcohol and watch what the grass clippings do, and
>> how hard it is to tell if there's any fire spreading.  It would make sense
>> for other hikers to experiment a bit, not only with fuels but also factoring
>> in, if possible, wind...produced  by a fan perhaps on your cement
>> driveway.  Eric, thank you for bringing that up.  Frankly, I hadn't really
>> thought about how the very lightweight soda can stove would behave in a
>> strong wind.  Good point.
>> Radar and Eckert, you're right when you say that it's not necessarily the
>> denatured alcohol that I  worry about, but the consequences of an accident
>> while using any form of fuel.  This already very dry year could be the one
>> Dennie and I have been worried about since we moved here in 1993.  Our worst
>> nightmare come true.  More on that in a moment....
>> And finally, Mark the Slogger...alcohol should be a sensitive subject, tho
>> as mentioned above, all fuels should be handled with extra care this year,
>> but especially alcohol, because of the nature of that particular beastie, be
>> it denatured or not.
>> Dennis is a retired firefighter, a 26 year veteran from the Oakland F.D(East Bay in the San Francisco Bay area).  The Department's most feared
>> fires, other than illegal fireworks manufacturing blazes and paint stores
>> were chemical fires, especially pharmaceutical company fires.  We have, over
>> the years, had quite a number of such companies in the East Bay, and cities
>> give mutual aid so Dennie's seen his share.  The nature of alcohol is to
>> burn invisibly, especially during daylight hours, making it very difficult
>> to know where the fire they're fighting is...or for that matter, to know if
>> alcohol is even involved.  Foam is used extensively for chemical fires, if
>> liquid alcohol has been released from containers, it can run under foam and
>> then as Donna mentioned, a spark can set it off, too often behind the
>> firefighters.  And too often, they don't know til their turnouts get
>> hot.  Bad business, that, as you might imagine.  This one aspect of this one
>> type of fuel is what scares
>> me so much that I felt compelled to write what I wrote.
>> Now, back to our worst nightmare...we've not had a fire through our
>> immediate area since Mt. Lassen erupted in 1914.  The largest of these
>> eruptions blew his side out (This Mt. is named for Peter Lassen, and is
>> therefore, male) and released a melted snow, mud and ash flow that rolled
>> out that side and down the mountain, following the path of least resistance,
>> which happened to be Hat Creek, and starting fires all along the
>> way.  Basically, some of the area around us (within a mile or so as the crow
>> flies) in a pick-up stick sort of hodge-podge just waiting for the right
>> moment.  It will be a horrendous. firestorm...the kind that produces it's
>> own winds and weather. To that end, we have installed fire hydrant-like
>> stand pipes all over our yard and three pumping systems all feeding from our
>> little creek.  Will it be enough?  We don't know, we don't want to find
>> out.  When we lived in Oakland, we feared a warm easterly wind above all
>> other things.  I mentioned that very subject
>> one morning on a dry October day  as we headed out to breakfast after
>> Dennie got back home from working a 24 hour shift, saying, "I wonder if this
>> is the wind we've been dreading."  About three hours later, we knew it was,
>> as Dennis raced back to duty and spent the next 48 hours fighting the
>> behemoth Oakland Hills fire that destroyed over 3000 homes and took 27
>> lives, including those of a very good friend of mine and of a co-worker of
>> Dennie's.  We'd not like to see a repeat, thank you.
>> So, regardless of what you plan to cook on or what you use to cook it
>> with, please do some practice runs at home under an assortment of weather
>> conditions, real or concocted.  Decide that watching a bit of cowboy T.V.
>> isn't necessarily needed for a good night's sleep and especially, know what
>> an alcohol fire burns like when it gets away from you-  before you head out
>> on the trail.  And, please spread the word about extra caution this season,
>> no matter what part of the trail you're on.
>> I really didn't expect the response my post has received...but, I thank
>> you all for weighing in on this most important issue.
>> Georgi
>> Trail Angel in Old Station.
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