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Re: [pct-l] bear manners

Tom Reynolds wrote:
> Why do I need to hike 2600 miles to understand what an extra 3 pounds
> means? Seriously, this is an insulting statement. Anyone who hikes 8-10 or
> more days without resupply knows the pain of each extra pound once you're
> at the limit.

Tom - 
We're both engineers, we're both hikers.  Does that mean we both know
the same things?  Of course not. I don't know what kind of engineering
you do, but how much do you know about spacecraft operations
engineering?  That's probably about how much I know about what you do as
an engineer. So we don't even have the same knowledge about the
engineering side of our lives.  
We both know about weekend and "vacation" hiking because we've both done
it, although I haven't been in the Sierras - and you haven't been where
I've been. I also know about thruhiking because I've done it.  How much
thruhiking have you done?  We both know the answer to that - and I'd
like to know why you expect your past experience to give you that
knowledge. You know better than that.  

There's nothing insulting at all about what I said - it's nothing but
common sense.  

> The PCT is a series of 8-10 day hikes between resupplies. True, as your fat
> goes away the need for calories increases but then you carrying ability
> will typically increase correspondingly.

That's where you lost it - one 8-10 day hike is one thing. The second,
third and fourth 8-10 day hikes are a transition region.  By the fifth
8-10 day hike you're in a totally different world, my friend.  And
you've never been there. 
You've oversimplified the process because you have no idea whatever
about the personal, emotional, spiritual - or physical effects of your
multiple 8-10 day hikes.  If you want to know -- then go find out.  Do
it - with or without the bear can.   

> That said, the current, non-Garcia, Bear Can weighs 2# 3 oz. Properly
> loaded it weighs 20.5 pounds. That's 18 pounds of food or 10-12 days for
> the average backpacker. 
>  I have a real problem understanding why you don't agree that this the
> absolutely best solution today to keeping food from bears!

C'mon Tom - you're an engineer. You deal with facts. First, you're
talking about thruhikers - and so far I haven't seen a single thruhiker
pipe up and admit to having lost their food to a bear.  Where are they? 
If there are any out there, how about letting us know. What I'm seeing
here - at least as far as the thruhiking community - is a solution
looking for a problem. Is there a problem?  Absolutely - among the
weekenders and the section hikers and those who basecamp.  But I'm
talking about thruhikers - ONLY. And up to this point, I've seen NO
indication of a thruhiker/bear problem except what's been foisted on
them by Brick's (or was that Birgitte's) idiot faction.  

Secondly, you're talking about weight.  2# you say. What's Jardine's
base pack weight? 12# maybe? Possibly less.  Wolf's pack is 9# base
weight.  Mine is about 25 - and much too heavy.  And ALL of us have
worked very hard to get that weight down.  And now you want us to
arbitrarily add 2+#. You REALLY don't understand, do you?  And that's
the answer to your first question.  

I'm not attacking you here, Tom - all I want is for you to realize that
your experience doesn't cover all the bases. Nor does mine - but I'm
working on that.  Are you?  Before you start telling thruhikers what
they should be carrying, you need to learn a few things. I'll repeat
what I just told someone else in a private post - there's an old maxim
that says - "Nothing's impossible for someone who doesn't have to do

> Even if you can expertly hang food every time and are willing to take the
> energy to do so, I'd question why you'd want to. Hanging food is a pain,
> almost as bad as camping near a bear box. 

I've never found that to be so.  Hanging food is just part of the
and I've never had a problem with it.  

> For 2 pounds you can camp where and when you want without hassel. 

I do that now.  I will do that next year - and I'll do it again when I
get to the PCT.  

> Instead of walking 16 miles a day for 10
> days, walk 18 miles for 9 days. You can save an extra two pounds of food
> for the last day and easily walk the extra two miles per day in the time it
> takes to hang your food! You can pick up the canister at Kennedy Meadows,
> refill it at Mammoth and dump it at Kennedy Meadows north of Yosemite.
> Whats the big deal?

300+ miles and 40,000 vertical feet of climbing with an extra 2+#. But
by your math I can save the same 2# of food, plus the 2+# of bear can
and walk 20 miles. :-)

Now - let's get back to the basic question again -- where are the
thruhikers who have lost their food to the bears?  If there are none,
then there is no problem in that regard, is there?  And if that's true,
then why should they carry bear cans?  

C'mon guys - I want to hear from you. If I'm wrong, then lets eat the
crow and get it over with.  :-)

Walk softly,

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