[pct-l] Outlaw trail--Directions

[pfreiman at ucsd.edu (Freiman, Paul)]

It's not in the same canyon as the tram.  For those of you who are itching to try it, drive through PS to Ramon Rd, turn right (west) and go to where the road ends.  You will see the trail that starts here.  It is called the "Carl Lykken trail".  Park two blocks away, on the side street, making sure it is legal to park.  Police patrol this area and give tickets.  It is best to park nearer the houses (cars use to be broken into, Don't park near any broken windshields).  Now it has been a long time since I've done this hike, but I'm giving you the scoop from when I last hiked it.  The starting elevation is about 400 feet.  The tram is 8400, and the peak is about 10,800.  The whole trip if you go to the top is about 22 miles.

Anyway, after 45 minutes or so of hiking this trail (don't start too fast) there is a bifurcation of the trail; that is, a trail going uphill comes in from the left.  Take this trail until it crests in a couple of hundred yards.  Rest.  You have reached the Outlaw trail.  There is a white-painted rock here and it use to say "Long Valley-12 miles".  You shouldn't have much confusion as to what is the trail.  It is a good tread, except for the last section before you pop out at Long Valley.  Here it zigzags up to the saddle.  The last 700 feet is steep.  The last 2 miles is in the shade of large pines, and you don't want any snow or ice, so I don't like to do it before April.  May and June are good times of the year.  I use to start at 4 AM and you can use headlamp and pre-dawn light to get to the start of the Outlaw at light.  The last time I did it, and the only time I summited, I started at 2 AM.  The temps were comfortable because I was already up 4000 feet when dawn broke, and I still needed my jacket during one section of cold wind.  I was crawling along (because of my back) but I still got to the tram at noon, and I was unworried about my ability to summit and be back at the tram before the last tram down.

Times are 5 hours to the tram for the fastest, but normal is 7.5 to 9 hours.  I usually did it in 8 hours (but that was 10-15 years ago).

If you sleep in your car at the trailhead the police will interrupt your sleep.  If you sleep a ways in on the trail you will have 2 AM partiers and early starters interrupting you.  It is 2.5 hours from San Diego.  One final note:  There is a start from a museum, which is about 1/2 hour faster than Ramon Rd, but I've never done it (and that would be too easy, wouldn't it).
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Saenz [mailto:msaenz@mve-architects.com]
Sent: Tue 02/07/2006 9:57 AM
To: Freiman, Paul
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Getting off the trail between Idyllwild and Cabazon?
 
WILD.

I can't imagine climbing that trail and seeing the tram wiz by overhead.
And hiking in the desert temps isn't my idea of a fun time...
I prefer to see that canyon from the rotating tram and starting my hike
at the top! It's much prettier up in the basin than in that desert
canyon!


Michael Saenz ,  Associate Partner
McLarand    Vasquez    Emsiek   &   Partners,   Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e  |  P l a n n i n g  |  I n t e r i o r s
MVE          MVE    Institutional         MVE    S t u d i o
w  w  w   .   m  v  e   -   a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s   .   c  o m

-----Original Message-----
From: Freiman, Paul [mailto:pfreiman@ucsd.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:50 AM
To: Mike Saenz
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Getting off the trail between Idyllwild and
Cabazon?

Back when I was the exalted leader the San Diego Peaks Club in 1995 I
inadvertantly lead my group on the same day that the Coachella Valley
Hiking Club was having their 3rd annual hike (and I have the t-shirt to
prove it).  I counted 85 people on the trail that day.  It's a very good
trail now.  Can't get lost.  On that day two of my hikers (one of them
was Virginia) got to the tram (8000 feet net difference) in 5 hours and
to the top (10,000 feet net difference) in 7 hours 15 minutes.  I
remember just hiking to the tram (I usually did it in 8 hours) and Tim
and Virginia got there 10 minutes after I did (but they had done 22
miles and 10000 feet of gain compared to my 12 miles and 8000 feet).  I
asked Jerry Schad to put it in his book "101 hikes in Southern
California".  If you want tips on hiking it give me a call.  There are
some Palm Springs hikers who hike it many times a month.  The weirdest
thing is the 40 degree temp diffence between the bottom and the tram.
You can do it any time of year, but in the summer you may want to start
at 2-4 AM in order to be at a high enough elevation when the heat hits.
http://home.san.rr.com/mondayhikes/hikes.html
Take a look at Palm Peak to Pyramid for some good shots of Virginia.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Saenz [mailto:msaenz@mve-architects.com]
Sent: Tue 02/07/2006 8:52 AM
To: Freiman, Paul; pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Getting off the trail between Idyllwild and
Cabazon?
 
Nice views out of Wellman, yes. Round Valley is nice to pass through
too.

Paul- You know a gal who "frequently" climbs the trail from PS to the
top of the tram???!!! That trail is INSANE. Didn't a SAR volunteer die
on that trail a couple years back? I know some people have climbed that
trail, but I've never heard of anyone who "frequently" climbs that...
The ride up the tram is impressive enough- to think about climbing that
route is, well, unthinkable!

I've heard somewhere that that trail is the most elevation gain in the
shortest distance of any other trail in the US.

Michael Saenz ,  Associate Partner
McLarand    Vasquez    Emsiek   &   Partners,   Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e  |  P l a n n i n g  |  I n t e r i o r s
MVE          MVE    Institutional         MVE    S t u d i o
w  w  w   .   m  v  e   -   a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s   .   c  o m

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Freiman,
Paul
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:14 PM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Getting off the trail between Idyllwild and
Cabazon?

I concur with Oilcan, except I would hike to Wellman Divide, but instead
of taking the PCT tread to the west I would then head east down to the
Tram.  This way it is very easy to regain the tread on subsequent
outings.  One more thing.... DO NOT tell the workers in the tram station
that you didn't pay to go up or they will make you pay!  
Once on the tram strike up a conversation with your fellow passengers
and you shouldn't have any trouble getting a ride to where you want to
go.  I know a gal who frequently hikes the 10,000 foot trail from PS to
the top and NEVER has any trouble getting a ride all the way to her car.
Capt Bivy

 
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:57:34 -0800
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Getting off the trail between Idyllwild and
        Cabazon?
To: <djm1313@foo21.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
        <0F2A8339042D50428A400D2CFE9805F85C1B90@exchange500.MVENET.AD>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

If the goal is to get to PS, then head east from Saddle Junction. Really
nice country between Saddle J and the tramway. You can hike from Saddle
J to the tramway in about 4-6 hours, depending on how fast you walk and
how much time you want to spend in the upper basin.

As far as I know, there are no viable run-outs from the PCT between
Idyllwild and Cabazon (and I wouldn't want to hitch in Cabazon...).

Take the Tram down. The Tram ride itself is really cool. I think you'll
need a ride from the bottom tram station into PS. It's a real long
driveway from the 111 to the bottom tram station.
Michael Saenz ,  Associate Partner