[pct-l] RE: Bear Cans

[msaenz at mve-architects.com (Mike Saenz)]

I'm just curious as how the manufacturer came up with the cost for their
product.
I assume the Garcia can was the first on the market. Monopolies tent to
set their prices to whatever they think they can get away with.
I wonder if the Bear Vault folks simply set their price to match the
Garcia cans?

The point I was trying to make is: Polycarb injection molds are about as
cheap a process there is. materials are very inexpensive (sparkletts
bottles are made of the stuff, albeit much thinner walled). The setup
for the prototypes is cheap too. My dad started a desk-top water bottle
business using this process. Very low cost start-up.
He made significant money in a short period of time before he bailed on
it just before the market became flooded with imitators and the novelty
factor wore off.

Though I can't prove anything, I imagine each BV200 costs less than $10
apiece to produce. I'd believe it's more like $3, but let's use $10 as a
starting point. Factor in soft costs of marketing and shipping the BV200
could list for $25 and still make 100% profit...

Very few products out there turn 100% profit. And those are typically
"intellectual property" (software, music, etc.).

The Bear Vault people are entitled to set their price at whatever they
want, but if it were me, I'd be happy with 25% profit margins as long as
I'm selling enough product.
If the BV200 listed at around $20, they'd blow Garcia outta the water!
Force Garcia to lower their prices. Then the competition would be to
improve the products by making them lighter, assortment of sizes, etc.

I tend to drop at least $100 on each trip out I take. Gas/airfare, food,
maps, the inevitable REI visit and, of course oilcans ;)
I went back and forth about either renting or buying a can for my last
trip to the GTW.
The last deciding factor came when my buddy and I decided to split the
REI rental cost and we were there in the store on our way to the
Sierras.

Anyway, I'm sure Bear Vault and Garcia would flame me in outrage at my
suggestion that they're taking advantage of us poor backpackers. I'm
sure they could demonstrate that they're taking a loss in serving the
backpacking community.

Perhaps I can talk my dad into re-starting his bottle biz and turn it
into a bear can biz!
We'll set the cost at 10% profit margin and laugh all the way to the
bank!!!

M i c h a e l   S a e n z
McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e    P l a n n i n g    I n t e r i o r s
w  w  w  .  m  v  e  -  a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s  .  c  o  m


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Encisco [mailto:dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov] 
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:14 PM
To: Mike Saenz
Subject: Re: Bear Cans

Can't argue with that...but, the amount of money I just sank into the
remodel of my house or the money I pay for audio component, $70
doesn't even cover the tax on some of the items. Everyone has their
limit. I'm in the Sierra on climbing and backpacking trips two to
three times a month beginning in April. $200 for bear can? Well to me
it's more justifiable than the $600 my wife spent on door pulls for
the kitchen. One man has got to eat and another man has to have door
pulls.

Dave

> On a previous reply to this thread, I indicated that I'd be more
> inclined to attack the costs of these cans. Why, oh WHY does an
> injection mold can cost $70???
>
> Sure, come up with the idea, do the R&D, write The Plan, front the
> capital for the start-up...
>
> But if you're REALLY clever, you'd price it for mass sales. I'm
balking
> at buying a BV200 because I don't get out to the Sierras as much as
I'd
> like.
> I WANT one, but at that price, I'll wait till my next Sierra trip
before
> I go through the internal debate again...
>
>
> M i c h a e l   S a e n z
> McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
> A r c h i t e c t u r e    P l a n n i n g    I n t e r i o r s
> w  w  w  .  m  v  e  -  a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s  .  c  o  m
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Encisco [mailto:dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov]
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:46 AM
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Re: Bear Cans (the diameter)
>
> Sorry I really haven't been following this thread because to me it's
> much like setting a speed limit: either you obey or you don't obey,
> your call.
>
> Nevertheless, since they're now close to being mandated at all major
> trail heads in the Sierra National Parks (and soon to be so for Sierra
> National Forests I'm told), I decided to dig out the Bearikade I
> purchased four years ago; which I've never used, and decided to start
> carrying it this year.  My climbing partner continues to carry his
> Ursack to defy the regulation (he's a registered Libertarian).
>
> So, when I found that my Bearikade was recalled I sent it back to Wild
> Ideas and they actually replaced it (for $25...but it was recalled!),
> I asked Allen why the diameter of the can had to be so wide. Just an
> inch less would allow me to easily slip the can into my pack; an inch
> and half less would be ideal! Allen told me that his "...tooling for
> table rolling of the cylinders has a fixed diameter. This diameter was
> chosen to defeat Grizzly Bears which have a very wide jaw extent. The
> Bearikade is used in both Grizzly and Black Bear territories."
>
> Therefore the beef I have with the canister is: why do I have to
> purchase a can that's Grizzly Bear proof? Why can't I just purchase a
> can that's Black Bear proof? Secondly, why does the can even have to
> pass the Grizzly or Polar Bear test at all? Are they planning to
> reintroduce the Grizzly back into the Sierra? That would certainly
> take care of the black bear population. No, this is just another big
> hammer (or big bear) approach. Not an exemplary example of good
> science.
>
> No bite, just a bark.
>
> Dave
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>

===========================================
        Dave Encisco
        dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov
	(650) 604-1381
===========================================

Please note: Emails authored under this address do not reflect the
opinions of my employer unless otherwise stated.