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[pct-l] RE: Bear Cans



the market for these cans is very narrow.  hence the high cost.   I'll bet
75% of u.s. backpackers don't even know what one is, and when they found out
would only use on in the sierras and maybe glacier n.p. and alaska.   Also,
$70 is cheap compared to a $240 bearikade.

s.c.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
To: "Dave Encisco" <dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov>
Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:57 PM
Subject: [pct-l] RE: Bear Cans


> I'm just curious as how the manufacturer came up with the cost for their
> product.
> I assume the Garcia can was the first on the market. Monopolies tent to
> set their prices to whatever they think they can get away with.
> I wonder if the Bear Vault folks simply set their price to match the
> Garcia cans?
>
> The point I was trying to make is: Polycarb injection molds are about as
> cheap a process there is. materials are very inexpensive (sparkletts
> bottles are made of the stuff, albeit much thinner walled). The setup
> for the prototypes is cheap too. My dad started a desk-top water bottle
> business using this process. Very low cost start-up.
> He made significant money in a short period of time before he bailed on
> it just before the market became flooded with imitators and the novelty
> factor wore off.
>
> Though I can't prove anything, I imagine each BV200 costs less than $10
> apiece to produce. I'd believe it's more like $3, but let's use $10 as a
> starting point. Factor in soft costs of marketing and shipping the BV200
> could list for $25 and still make 100% profit...
>
> Very few products out there turn 100% profit. And those are typically
> "intellectual property" (software, music, etc.).
>
> The Bear Vault people are entitled to set their price at whatever they
> want, but if it were me, I'd be happy with 25% profit margins as long as
> I'm selling enough product.
> If the BV200 listed at around $20, they'd blow Garcia outta the water!
> Force Garcia to lower their prices. Then the competition would be to
> improve the products by making them lighter, assortment of sizes, etc.
>
> I tend to drop at least $100 on each trip out I take. Gas/airfare, food,
> maps, the inevitable REI visit and, of course oilcans ;)
> I went back and forth about either renting or buying a can for my last
> trip to the GTW.
> The last deciding factor came when my buddy and I decided to split the
> REI rental cost and we were there in the store on our way to the
> Sierras.
>
> Anyway, I'm sure Bear Vault and Garcia would flame me in outrage at my
> suggestion that they're taking advantage of us poor backpackers. I'm
> sure they could demonstrate that they're taking a loss in serving the
> backpacking community.
>
> Perhaps I can talk my dad into re-starting his bottle biz and turn it
> into a bear can biz!
> We'll set the cost at 10% profit margin and laugh all the way to the
> bank!!!
>
> M i c h a e l   S a e n z
> McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
> A r c h i t e c t u r e    P l a n n i n g    I n t e r i o r s
> w  w  w  .  m  v  e  -  a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s  .  c  o  m
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Encisco [mailto:dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov]
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:14 PM
> To: Mike Saenz
> Subject: Re: Bear Cans
>
> Can't argue with that...but, the amount of money I just sank into the
> remodel of my house or the money I pay for audio component, $70
> doesn't even cover the tax on some of the items. Everyone has their
> limit. I'm in the Sierra on climbing and backpacking trips two to
> three times a month beginning in April. $200 for bear can? Well to me
> it's more justifiable than the $600 my wife spent on door pulls for
> the kitchen. One man has got to eat and another man has to have door
> pulls.
>
> Dave
>
> > On a previous reply to this thread, I indicated that I'd be more
> > inclined to attack the costs of these cans. Why, oh WHY does an
> > injection mold can cost $70???
> >
> > Sure, come up with the idea, do the R&D, write The Plan, front the
> > capital for the start-up...
> >
> > But if you're REALLY clever, you'd price it for mass sales. I'm
> balking
> > at buying a BV200 because I don't get out to the Sierras as much as
> I'd
> > like.
> > I WANT one, but at that price, I'll wait till my next Sierra trip
> before
> > I go through the internal debate again...
> >
> >
> > M i c h a e l   S a e n z
> > McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
> > A r c h i t e c t u r e    P l a n n i n g    I n t e r i o r s
> > w  w  w  .  m  v  e  -  a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s  .  c  o  m
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Encisco [mailto:dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov]
> > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:46 AM
> > To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] Re: Bear Cans (the diameter)
> >
> > Sorry I really haven't been following this thread because to me it's
> > much like setting a speed limit: either you obey or you don't obey,
> > your call.
> >
> > Nevertheless, since they're now close to being mandated at all major
> > trail heads in the Sierra National Parks (and soon to be so for Sierra
> > National Forests I'm told), I decided to dig out the Bearikade I
> > purchased four years ago; which I've never used, and decided to start
> > carrying it this year.  My climbing partner continues to carry his
> > Ursack to defy the regulation (he's a registered Libertarian).
> >
> > So, when I found that my Bearikade was recalled I sent it back to Wild
> > Ideas and they actually replaced it (for $25...but it was recalled!),
> > I asked Allen why the diameter of the can had to be so wide. Just an
> > inch less would allow me to easily slip the can into my pack; an inch
> > and half less would be ideal! Allen told me that his "...tooling for
> > table rolling of the cylinders has a fixed diameter. This diameter was
> > chosen to defeat Grizzly Bears which have a very wide jaw extent. The
> > Bearikade is used in both Grizzly and Black Bear territories."
> >
> > Therefore the beef I have with the canister is: why do I have to
> > purchase a can that's Grizzly Bear proof? Why can't I just purchase a
> > can that's Black Bear proof? Secondly, why does the can even have to
> > pass the Grizzly or Polar Bear test at all? Are they planning to
> > reintroduce the Grizzly back into the Sierra? That would certainly
> > take care of the black bear population. No, this is just another big
> > hammer (or big bear) approach. Not an exemplary example of good
> > science.
> >
> > No bite, just a bark.
> >
> > Dave
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
>
> ===========================================
>         Dave Encisco
>         dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov
> (650) 604-1381
> ===========================================
>
> Please note: Emails authored under this address do not reflect the
> opinions of my employer unless otherwise stated.
>
>
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