[pct-l] pack sales vs. folks who get it

[scourtway@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Steve Courtway)]

I don't believe pack sales and club membership are key indicators
of who is actually enjoying long distance hiking, and making regular
use of our trail systems.  Most of those packs are sitting in garages,
being used to go on air trips, etc.  Barely making it 3 miles up trail
into the Sierras when 7 to 10 was planned happens ALL THE TIME.
"this sucks" is what alot of those pack owners said on their maiden voyage.
The club members are sitting pouring over their topos, and reading
their gazettes, formulating all kinds of crazy ideas about what the hike
is all about, how it should be done, and who should do what.  If a
barefoot hiker stubs a toe on a rock and gets stickers in his webs, you
know what he does ?  He puts his running shoes back on.

Steadfast adherance to the old ways is the world's main problem sir.

and Mr. Smallberries, don't think that you're the only one who has lost
friends in the wilderness, or who has considered these losses when going
hiking.

Flexibility is the name of the game.

Steve Courtway



----- Original Message -----
From: "johnsmallberries" <johnsmallberries@hvc.rr.com>
To: "pcta" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 7:57 AM
Subject: [pct-l] Yee gawdz, get ahold of yourselves! Or, smallberries speak=
s
and all listen in a state of rapture.


> > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not
understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Smallberrries tries to assert his opinion and I get called a "troll" whic=
h
> is demeaning, but more importantly, indicates to me that my post should b=
e
> read more carefully by you all. The title was, in part, "An observation."
I
> would be the last person to say to members of this list or anyone "do wha=
t
I
> do." I don't even do what I say I "should do." I am far from perfect.
>
> I gave my opinion on safety, footwear, dress appropriate for varied and
and
> unpredictable changes in climate, my opinion on ultralight (directed at
solo
> trekkers, as if one has a partner it is a good  technique, if you know
what
> you are doing), weight management (keeping pack weight down to critical
> essentials) and equipment. I directed my comments to fellow listers
because
> I noted a litany of bad experiences with heat, feet, poison oak, logistic=
s
> and what I consider unsafe and poorly thought out practices on a long and
> difficult trek.
>
> Perhaps I am wrong. Maybe the PCT is long but not difficult. But I doubt
it
> after studying the topos, seeing some tapes, reading journals and this
list,
> and discussing it with two friends who thru-hiked it in 1985.
>
> Perhaps the deaths of three of my friends over the past 20 years-one in
the
> Shawangunks, one in Tuckerman=B9s Ravine, and one in the Catskills (very
> experienced all)- motivates me to urge folks to be wary of the plunging
into
> another world as if it were another form of our privileged lives of
comfort
> in our society, because it is not at all. I did not lecture anyone. I gav=
e
> my opinion. If you feel lectured, you must also assume you know all there
is
> to know. I suggest it is better to learn from one another=B9s experiences=
 on
> this list.
>
> Finally, the number of people trekking has increased 150% over the past 5
> years (see Sierra Club, Green Mountain Club, ADK, AMC, and Outward Bound,
as
> well as sales of big packs, boots, crampons, technical gear, etc. You
don=B9t
> need to =B3guess=B2 when the facts are readily available) and shows no si=
gn of
> abating. I will not bore you with this topic anymore right now, but when =
I
> observe people extolling the virtues of being a jerk to others, I reserve
my
> right to  comment, as others may think it is good path to wander down. I
> have no problem with anyone being a jerk when trekking (I often am) but I
> don=B9t spread the word to others to risk their bodies as I might. So coo=
l
> out, and try to be smart so you can trek until senile dementia kicks in.
Oh
> yeah, don=B9t call me names. It does not reflect well upon your character=
 or
> intelligence. Thanks, Marc Adin.
>
>
> =B3This list goes to to folks of all ages, experience and
> condition. Care of your feet is a trekkers number one priority.=B2
>
> Marc =B3smallberries=B2 Adin, 6 January 2003
>
> > From: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>
> > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 14:52:02 -0800
> > To: "johnsmallberries" <johnsmallberries@hvc.rr.com>, "pcta"
> > <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Northeast trekking versus west trekking: An
observation
> >
> > a troll is a post of narrow minded material in the hopes
> > of sparking "discussion".........
> >
> > regarding trekking becoming the running boom of the mid-70's.......
> >
> > It has already peaked out.  The majority of people who got into
> > hiking into the mid 80's already hate it, and go no more.
> >
> > Last year had the lightest Yosemite visitorship in years, 3.4M folks.
> >
> > blame it on the economy (sept. 11 included) but my hunch is that out
> > of 5 people who get into hiking or camping, 1 becomes an actual
enthusiast
> > who isn't deterred by bugs, snow, pain, blisters, boredom, etc.
> >
> > this downward trend in hiking enthusiasm is a GOOD THING !!!!
> >
> > last year, I basically had the JMT to myself the 1st week and 1/2 of
July,
> > save about a 1/2 dozen thru hikers passed daily.
> >
> > p.s. I had the opportunity to hike around Sedona, AZ this last weekend,
> > and boy, it is now in my top 6 hiking locations.  My list:
> >
> > 1. the high sierra PCT, CA
> > 2. Kenai Peninsula, AK
> > 3. Bryce, UT
> > 4. Sedona, AZ
> > 5. Zion, UT
> > 6. Hardangervidda Region, Norway
> >
> > Steve "diggin' them vortexes" Courtway,
> > obviously biased towards the west. hahahahaha
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "johnsmallberries" <johnsmallberries@hvc.rr.com>
> > To: <Slyatpct@aol.com>; "pcta" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Northeast trekking versus west trekking: An
observation
> >
> >
> >>> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not
> > understand
> >> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
> >> --
> >> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> >> Yes, I have been on the trail for a few miles, but that means nothing.
A
> >> trail as long as the PCT requires conditioning, right gear for
conditions
> > of
> >> the trekker and the terrain, varying microclimates, altitude, etc., an=
d
> >> knowledge/experience. Any less and the recent discussion about money
spent
> >> saving misguided Onot as smart as I am=B9 trekkers will dominate not o=
nly
> > this
> >> list, but much of the future national agenda of the use of public land=
s
> > for
> >> the sublime joy of the wilderness experience. Trekking is on the verge
of
> >> being the running boom of the mid-70=B9s. The baby boomers are coming.
This
> > is
> >> not a rant, but an observation and a belief. It is not going anywhere.
It
> > is
> >> here and folks like us are the best ones to take the lead on the futur=
e
> > use
> >> of these precious resources, not pols. And whatever a =B3troll=B2 is w=
ill
have
> >> to be defined to me b4 I respond or ignore it. By the way, the majorit=
y
of
> >> 24 year olds I see are morbidly obese. Why is that? This is a list for
> >> discussion, larger issues are certainly as important as whether MSR
> >> snowshoes are as good as Atlas 1225=B9s. No? Thanks for reading. Marc
Adin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> LOL...   Have you ever been on the PCT?  It's like a side walk!
> >>>
> >>> Plus, if you haven't noticed lately, nearly everyone has switched to
> >>> trailshoes.  I suspect this rant is nothing but a troll...
> >>>
> >>> Sly
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> johnsmallberries@hvc.rr.com writes:
> >>>
> >>>> I am a relative newbie to this list, but not a newbie to
> > mountaineering. I
> >>>> have been doing all iterations of the sport-adventure for 40 years.
My
> >>>> observations of the discussions are many, but I will only address th=
e
> > issues
> >>>> which are important to safety, enjoying the experience and challenge=
,
> > weight
> >>>> management of pack and asides on equipment.
> >>>>
> >>>> The discussion regarding footwear implies some very dangerous
> > practices.
> >>>> Wearing lightweight running. Xtraining sneaks to do any form of
hiking
> > is
> >>>> irresponsible. This list goes to to folks of all ages, experience an=
d
> >>>> condition. Care of your feet is a trekkers number one priority. You
> > must get
> >>>> the right boot for the job. It must deal with the vagaries of
> > supination,
> >>>> pronation, foot volume, ankle strength and what the most demanding
> >>>> conditions one may encounter unexpectedly on the trail. I bold
> >>>> 'unexpectedly=8F because the future is always invisible to us, only
past
> >>>> experience portends to guide us, and it is often a poor one. But it
is
> > the
> >>>> best we have to guide us ahead. So, get the freekin=8F best boots yo=
u
can
> > for
> >>>> what you want to do. As I read descriptions of the PCT, I would chos=
e
> >>>> something the Tecnica=8Fs Dunagiri GTX or Scarpa=8Fs SL M3=8Fs. I wo=
uld get
> > OR=8Fs
> >>>> Croc Gaiters. You won=8Ft have to worry about wet feet, blisters, sn=
ow,
> > ice,
> >>>> post-holing (anyone who post holes today is a masochist, in my
opinion)
> > so
> >>>> get some Atlas lightweight snowshoes and instep crampons. Forget the
> >>>> Yaktrax. They stink. I field test equipment and they are not for
> > trekking.
> >>>> The key is be safe and live to trek another day. Cheaping out on
> > equipment
> >>>> is a drag when when you are futzed up 20 miles from nowhere because
you
> >>>> saved a couple of bucks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Safety. Carry a damn good kit. Well thought out: something for
> > splinting,
> >>>> sprains, inflammation, pain (get good pain meds from your doc, they
> > will
> >>>> prescribe something which will able you to get someplace for help
> > despite
> >>>> the the pain), antiseptic, wound care, steristrips, liquid bandage,
> > blister
> >>>> gunk, gauze, benadryl, something for burns. Whatever you have have o=
n
> > your
> >>>> back is your life and will save your life or save someone else's.
> > Always
> >>>> carry 50=8F of a good nylon rope, and, of course, some duct tape.
> >>>>
> >>>> Get a damn good pack to carry all this gear. Get a sleeping bag
> > w/polarguard
> >>>> delta or 3d, forget hv and down. Get a tough 3 season tent or a soli=
d
4
> >>>> season one. Always wear long pants, no matter how hot it is. Always
> > wear a
> >>>> long sleeve shirt. Pick out 2 pair of both, one for heat and one for
> > cool.
> >>>> Bring poly for layering. Never wear cotton. Have a brimmed hat
> > (supplex,
> >>>> golite, etc.) and a cool, cold weather hat. Always use poles, and
wear
> >>>> biking gloves all the time. Make sure you have a good water filter
and
> > and a
> >>>> camelback, 100oz.
> >>>>
> >>>> An ice ax3e is handy, but get a freekin=8F light one. Learn how to u=
se
> > all
> >>>> this stuff b4 you go out. You don=8Ft need a gps, but have the best
maps
> >>>> available and learn how to use your compass. Scissors, a small
> > knife...a la
> >>>> leatherman microtool will handle everything.
> >>>>
> >>>> And last, get into the best shape you can. Wear a 55 lb pack whereve=
r
> > you go
> >>>> for up to six months b4 attempting a long thru hike. Run stairs.
Being
> > tough
> >>>> physically will toughen you up mentally which will toughen you up
> > physically
> >>>> (or something like that). Blow of all that ultralight crap. It will
> > kill
> >>>> people. Unless you do 3-4 ironman triathalons a year. Then wear
pasties
> > and
> >>>> a g string.
> >>>>
> >>>> It seems to me that a lot of folks on the west coast yak like you ar=
e
> > 24 and
> >>>> are in the best shape of your lives, and the PCT is sooooo easy you
can
> > flop
> >>>> around in sandals. It sounds like the bravado and 'I=8Fll live 4ever=
=8F
> > mindset
> >>>> I hade a long time ago until a few very experienced friends died
> > playing
> >>>> around and beyond the coagulated edge.  Don=8Ft fuel yourselves. Mar=
co
> > the
> >>>> Mad/xxx
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
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