Fw: [pct-l] Bear Cannister requirements

[goforth@cio.net (Joanne Lennox)]

----------
> From: Joanne Lennox <goforth@cio.net>
> To: David Sacerdote <dsacer@cisco.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear Cannister requirements
> Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:13 AM
> 
> 
> Dave wrote:
> This also reduces the extent to
> which bears become habituated, since they have to raid more people in
order
> to
> get enough food.  With luck, they'll switch to eating the people instead
of
> their food.
> 
> 
> I find this point very interesting.  and although I got a good laugh out
of
> this and other points made in your post, I wonder if  bodily harm will
not
> be an outcome of restricting food availablitity to bears that are in fact
> already habituated.  It appears to me that the bears in areas that are 
> problematic have been getting increasingly aggressive, perhaps as a
result
> of these restrictions. If Bears are tearing apart cars in parking lots,
> what is a bear learning.  If you say we are "habituating" bears, what
else
> are we teaching them?
> 
> Why are bears a problem in one area and not in another?  Is it only the
> number of people that transit the area?  On the PCT there are large
numbers
> of people at Crater Lake,( Rainier National Park) Lassen, Harts Pass,
etc. 
> and there are no bear boxes in these areas, but there are bears.
> 
> Joanne
> 
> ----------
> > From: David Sacerdote <dsacer@cisco.com>
> > To: goforth@cio.net
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear Cannister requirements
> > Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:24 PM
> > 
> > Joanne Lennox wrote:
> > 
> > > I have read the "regulations":There are certain areas where
> "backpackers"
> > > are required to have " food  stored" in  a bear canister.  I do not
> know
> > > the definition of a backpacker, nor of stored and non-stored food. 
Are
> day
> > > hikers with backpacks required to have bear canisters. Are
> "backpackers"
> > > who are not overnighting in an area required to have a canister.  If
I
> > > arrive in the Rae Lakes area having eated all my food, do I have to
> have a
> > > Cannister or bear proof panniers.  If I carry food in my pocket is
that
> > > improper storage?  I also note that only "food" is required to be
> stored,
> > > there is no mention of "feed"(does cut grass need to be stored?).  Is
> there
> > > a definition of "food".  
> > 
> > Humans and bears have fairly similar digestive systems.  Fast for three
> days. 
> > Anything you would now consider eating is food.
> > 
> > After fasting for three days, I'd gladly eat molasses-covered grain.  I
> don't
> > think I would eat hay.
> > 
> > The real question here is: do you want to take the risk that a bear
will
> eat
> > your horse's food, and leave you with a hungry horse?   I know I can
walk
> for
> > three days without food, but how long can you induce your horse to do
so?
> > 
> > > A number of hikers have talked about food outside
> > > their canisters.  What are we talking about here?  How does one use
or
> cook
> > > food if it is in the cannister? 
> > 
> > There are two reasons to use a cannister:
> > 1. Keep food for yourself if a bear comes through
> > 2. Prevent bears from being habituated.
> > 
> > You can't avoid the need to eat, so some food has to come out at
> mealtimes. 
> > Keeping the remainder in the cannister means that if a bear comes
through
> while
> > you're eating, you lose, at most, one meal.  This also reduces the
extent
> to
> > which bears become habituated, since they have to raid more people in
> order to
> > get enough food.  With luck, they'll switch to eating the people
instead
> of
> > their food.
> > 
> > >  does anybody out there have actual
> > > experience on how these regulations have been interpreted for hikers?

> So
> > > thruhikers are starting North from Reds Meadow with bear canisters in
> their
> > > wee little golite packs?  Are Rangers stopping hikers and searching
> packs
> > > or requiring a canister be produced?  
> > 
> > I've been asked "do you have a wilderness permit," and "are you camped
> around
> > here," but never had anybody look to confirm my answer, or check to
make
> sure
> > that I was using bear-resistant food storage.  I also know an
individual
> who
> > had his food taken at a roadside campground and was not fined.
> > 
> > In practice, problem bears don't seem to go after people while they're
> hiking;
> > they're a problem when you stop. I've seen the same pattern with
> grizzlies in
> > Canada.
> > 
> > > The Pannier problem is a particularly thorny one for me, because I do
> not
> > > have a " pack" animal( I have a riding horse on which I pack some
food
> and
> > > gear), nor do I have a way of carrying Panniers on a riding
saddle(they
> > > also cost 500 dollars, a pack saddle and the harnesses would require
an
> > > equal investment, even if I had a pack horse which I do not have). 
> Part of
> > > the reason I am trying to go without a pack animal is that it reduces
> > > impact.  Obviously, not all stock is pack stock. I note that the
> Monarche
> > > divide area (Cedar grove to Glacier Pass to Simpson Meadow to
Evolution
> > > basin) would be an alternate which does not have the same stringent
> > > requirements but it is not the PCT, and that does not solve the
problem
> for
> > > me near Red's meadow ( barring just going on a three day high
altitude
> > > fast).
> > 
> > What about steel salvage drums?  According to
> > http://www.nps.gov/yose/wilderness/bfoodstorage.htm you're allowed to
use
> those
> > if you have not yet purchased panniers.
> > 
> > > Should Dogs be required to have bear-proof panniers? :) Does a dog
eat
> food
> > > or feed or......
> > 
> > After three days without food, I'd gladly eat a dog.  Dogs must be kept
> in bear
> > cannisters.