[pct-l] Fwd: Angeles NF Bans Stoves for 2018

[Jay Bruins]

Also from 36 CFR 261.2:
Campfire means a fire, not within any building, mobile home or living accommodation mounted on a  motor vehicle <https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=e9f06df0fe7c9c48eab582fcfa45c718&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:36:Chapter:II:Part:261:Subpart:A:261.2>, which is used for cooking, personal warmth, lighting, ceremonial, or esthetic purposes. Fire includes  campfire <https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=5e6480c7a2f4157d05f591f31c8a09b6&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:36:Chapter:II:Part:261:Subpart:A:261.2>.

Cheers,
Armstrong

> On Jan 8, 2018, at 10:28 AM, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Jay, thanks for the link. It makes the order less ambiguous (pressurized stoves are explicitly included in the definition of stove fire) but I suspect it still is ill-worded. Since no exception is made for stove fires within vehicles (as is made for smoking), the letter of the order would make cooking (or running a gas heater) within an RV illegal and punishable. I very much doubt that this is the intent. 
> 
> Unless this is indeed the case (and good luck enforcing that), I stand by my assessment that this is a sloppily-worded order.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 9:51 AM Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com <mailto:jbruins at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Sorry, but it’s not ambiguous.
> 
> The cover letter (second page of the PDF) explains, in plain English, their intent to ban stoves. As “sloppy” as they might have been in proofreading, just reading rest of the provided document would have made their intent clear.
> 
> Moreover the order itself, refers to the law directly. The law can be found here:
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/261.52 <https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/261.52>
> Cornell’s site is convenient in that the definition for “stove fire” hyperlinks to the legal definition from 261.2. From there, you can look at the definition of “campfire”, too.
> 
> This California fire season has created a natural resource disaster. Managing it is not something I’d wish on anyone.
> 
> Armstrong
> 
> On Jan 8, 2018, at 8:11 AM, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com <mailto:jdrewsmith at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Another example of their typical sloppy and ambiguous orders. A "stove
>> fire" might reasonably be interpreted as a wood-burning stove, and I'll bet
>> that was their intent. Otherwise they would be banning Coleman stoves and
>> stoves within RVs. I find that implausible.
>> 
>> Note how the author confuses "except" with "exempt" in the second section.
>> Do they give a second's thought to these orders? They obviously don't
>> bother to proofread them.
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 7:26 AM Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net <mailto:gary_schenk at verizon.net>> wrote:
>> 
>>> New fire and stove restrictions on the Angeles for 1018. No campfires or
>>> stoves, apparently even in developed campgrounds.
>>> https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd568359.pdf <https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd568359.pdf>
>>> 
>>> Gary
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