[pct-l] Fires

Tue May 2 18:00:16 CDT 2017

Alcohol stoves are prohibited by omission: In both forests, only gas and
petroleum jelly stoves are permitted outside developed campgrounds. (Wood
and charcoal are permitted only in developed recreation sites, not in the
backcountry.) Alcohol, esbit, etc. do not meet that description.

And as Jeff and Marmot point out, there are good reasons other than
regulations not to, um, play with fire.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the info Carl. The San Bernadino post does state that a shut
> off valve is required. (But it is a little odd since they state that wood
> or charcoal fires are permitted.) As I read the Angeles NF though it seems
> to imply that you need a campfire permit but there is no requirement for a
> shut-off valve. I would think a alcohol stove would be legal. I tried
> calling them but the indicate they are closed.
>
> Good info.
>
>       -Scott
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Carl Siechert <carlito at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The rules are different for each forest. Marmot was specifically referring
>> to SoCal, where alcohol stoves are not allowed.
>>
>> San Bernardino NF:
>>
>>    - Portable contained-gas or liquefied-petroleum stoves or lanterns with
>>       a fuel shut-off valve are permitted with a valid California
>> Campfire Permit.
>>
>> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sbnf/home/?cid=fsbdev7_007776
>>
>> Angeles NF:
>>
>>    - Gas and petroleum jelly stoves only outside of designated sites with
>> a
>>
>>       valid California Campfire Permit.
>>
>> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/angeles/conditions/?cid=FSBDEV3_027721
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Scott Diamond <
>> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > No that is not a nice e-mail. Worse though, it is factually inaccurate.
>> >
>> > I've heard these overarching statements by some that "alcohol stoves are
>> > banned from the PCT!".  Anecdotally, last summer when getting a ride up
>> to
>> > Walker pass, I was picked up by a ranger and former forest fire fighter.
>> > She indicated that there was not any ban on alcohol stoves.  I had heard
>> > that Sequoia has restrictions and I did a quick Google Search.  The
>> webpage
>> > states that for designated campgrounds
>> > <https://www.nps.gov/seki/learn/nature/fire-restrictions.htm>"propane,
>> > alcohol (with and without a shutoff valve) and tablet/cube stoves are
>> > permitted". And this is all the way up to level 3 (extreme).  The
>> > additional restrictions for backpacking
>> > <https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/minimum-impact-restrictions.htm
>> >
>> > do
>> > not mention a shut off valve.  If someone has some verifiable objective
>> > evidence showing otherwise then please post it. I'm open to learning.
>> >
>> > It is a free country and you are welcome to express your opinions. We
>> could
>> > lecture each other on the evils of Walmart, buying bottled water,  or
>> other
>> > issues but I'd suggest that lecturing people in this manner, while it
>> may
>> > make you feel better, is very ineffective.
>> >
>> >    - Rover
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:07 PM, marmot marmot <
>> marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > There have been so many references on line to making a fire on the
>> trail.
>> > > Hikers--class of 2017---you do not make fires. This is southern Calif.
>> > > Every section you have walked through has had enormous burns. Most of
>> > those
>> > > burns were caused by people. ALL of those people thought that they
>> knew
>> > > what they were doing. You are only allowed to use a backpacking stove
>> > with
>> > > a shut off valve. No Alcohol, No esbit tabs. NO STUPID CAMPFIRES. I
>> don't
>> > > care if you imagine that just because you have a fire permit that you
>> can
>> > > burn up the forest because you want to have Somemores. Campfires
>> require
>> > a
>> > > shovel,water,a huge diameter of plant free dirt. Do you have that?  I
>> > doubt
>> > > it. This is mindless behavior. The Lake Fire burned 30,000 acres.
>> This is
>> > > not a nice email. It is not meant to be. The animals,trees and plants
>> you
>> > > kill by carelessness, will never come back. It does not matter that
>> you
>> > > imagine you can control a fire. So did everyone who thought that they
>> > could
>> > > not live without a "romantic" fire.
>> > >
>> > > Marmot
>> > >
>> > > Sent from my iPhone
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