[pct-l] SNOW

[Gary Schenk]

Ned, 

Interesting. I believe that ability to self-belay is more important that self-arrest. It's better to not fall than to try to self-arrest. Self-arrest is far from being a guaranteed thing. Experts say it works maybe 50% of the time.

Of course, Forester Pass is not exactly the Himalayas.

Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/8/17, ned at mountaineducation.org <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:

 Subject: RE: [pct-l] SNOW
 To: "'Gary Schenk'" <gary_schenk at yahoo.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
 Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2017, 11:10 AM
 
 Self-arrest poles do not
 have the lateral strength to be used for
 self-belay, even if you took off the snow
 basket in the middle of a
 traverse. 
 
 I find that using my two poles
 to maintain my balance, Whippet in the
 downhill hand as opposed to an ice axe in the
 uphill hand, while kicking
 footholds with
 crampons on the moderate slopes snow-hikers face (even
 Forester and Mather) is sufficient and works
 well.
 
 I've also come to
 the decision that the commonly carried short axes, if
 used
 for self-belay on these lower-angle
 slopes (15-30 degrees), cause hikers to
 be
 bent over too much, because the axe shaft has to be
 completely plunged
 into the snow to affect
 the needed anchor, and they compromise their balance
 in the process causing falls on these steep
 slopes. 
 
 Thus, it is better
 to encourage snow-hikers to stand normally and use their
 poles for good balance control rather than use
 an uphill axe for self-belay,
 causing this
 bent-over posture, and a pole to oppose gravity on the
 downhill
 side.
 
 
 Ned Tibbits, Director
 Mountain Education, Inc.
 ned at mountaineducation.org
 
 
 -----Original
 Message-----
 From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
 On Behalf Of Gary Schenk
 Sent: Tuesday,
 March 7, 2017 10:42 AM
 To: pct-l at backcountry.net
 Subject: Re: [pct-l] SNOW
 
 Doesn't the snow basket prevent a really
 good self belay?
 
 Gary
 --------------------------------------------
 On Fri, 3/3/17, ned at mountaineducation.org
 <ned at mountaineducation.org>
 wrote:
  Self-arrest poles do
  double duty for the snow hiker,
  1. Prevent
  slip-and-falls by
 helping maintain your balance (as any pole  would do),
 and  2. Allow you to immediately  deploy the
 self-arrest pick into the snow
 to stop any
 sudden  tumbles (if you know how). 
 
 
  
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective
 authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without
 express permission.