[pct-l] LNT and permethrin

[Cody B]

Hey all, I have been staying out of this but since someone brought up
chemistry, I'm gonna pop my head in:

In response to Grandpa Kilt: Yes, I am a chemist. Permethrin is indeed a
synthetic analog to pyrethrum. However, we need to be careful not to fall
into a naturalistic fallacy. Just because something is naturally occuring
does not mean it's safe and just because something is synthetic does not
make it bad. Permethrin is very effective and has its uses, but we need to
be careful and responsible in our use of it. It is naturally occuring in
chrysanthemums, but that is a small dose in a localized area.

My recommendations? If you're going to use permethrin, treat your clothes
BEFORE you go into the backcountry. Treat them before you head onto the
trail, or in town if you must. Put it on your clothes instead of your skin
and do not go swimming in your clothes to minimize the introduction of
permethrin in the waterways. It is very stable in both water and soil and
in turn will stick around for a long time without degrading.

I am using bug pants that are pre-treated with Permethrin, but am going to
be very cautious to avoid my clothes contacting the water as much as
possible. Permethrin can be used responsibly or irresponsibly. Strive to be
better.
On Mar 5, 2016 3:14 PM, "Marvin and Shirley Barg" <barg at shaw.ca> wrote:

> After being bombarded with LNT, permethrin and what not for the past weeks,
> Grampa Kilt has welled up with enough emotion to add his 2 cents to the
> debate.
>
>
>
> It seems to me that the overall tone of most LNT posts is that they are
> written from a moral high ground perspective. The trouble with LNT is that
> if taken to its logical conclusion, it means none of us can exist. I defy
> anyone to leave no trace. Ask any dog to follow your 10s of thousands of
> skin cells falling off your body on the trail, not to mention all the
> chemicals, some not very nice, found soaking into the ground during pee
> stops. And the very tread one walks upon, think of the carbon foot print it
> took to make and currently maintain the trail. And the gear, the
> clothes.The
> truth is that LNT is a continuum and not an absolute. My point is that the
> LNT people with a moral superiority complex need to be called out on their
> hypocrisy and on the other end of the spectrum, those that leave far too
> much trace, need to be called to account for their boorish behavior. The
> rest of us, should strive to leave as little trace as is reasonably
> possible. Perhaps LNT should really stand for Leave Negligible Trace.
>
>
>
> Now over to permethrin.  Are there no chemists among us to point out the
> permethrin is synthetically made pyrethrum, an insect neurotoxin produced
> by
> chrysanthemums?  The WHO lists permethrin as one of the essential
> medications for basic public health. As far as chemicals mankind has
> gleaned
> from plants, on the continuum of risk, it falls way south of willow bark or
> pregnant mare's urine in our dihydrogen monoxide. End of rant.  Grampa Kilt
>
>
>
>
>
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