[pct-l] Echo Chalet no longer a resupply point / troublemakers on the trail

Mon Jan 11 14:48:19 CST 2016

Tom......Being most of the bad behavior is happening in small towns to
small trail businesses....if you feel the home trail hosts should close
down then you must feel the same for ALL the businesses that the hikers
frequent. The hikers get their alcohol at the businesses.....not at
someone's home. If the hikers would act responsible and respectful to
everyone there wouldn't be a problem. Being it's usually a big group or two
that aggravates everyone coming up the trail, I feel it would be better to
deal with the troublemakers and leave everyone else to enjoy themselves.
Every troublemaker we have seen in the past has had a problem with alcohol.
So, we have solved that problem by banning all alcohol on our property. Now
we still have the 95% of the pleasant hikers staying with us. The one's who
can't live without being drunk can stay in town and be a pain. As I've said
in years past....if you don't like the rules then stay away.

Andrea Dinsmore

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 11:39 AM, <TBrokaw at montmush.com> wrote:

> I suspect our comments here are just preaching to the quire.  The few who
> cause trouble probably don't read or care about this site.  However, I
> think there are a few things we could do improve the situation.
>
> 1. On the trail - We should each make an attempt to correct the offenders
> when we observe bad behavior.  If this is done in a polite way, I don't see
> that this violates the HYOH principle. I did this on the trail in 2015 when
> I observed some risky behavior involving fire.  A little peer pressure
> would be good.
>
> 2. Off Trail - Perhaps the PCT would be better off without Hiker Houses?
> It seems that Trail Angels are "feeding the bears" by providing too much
> assistance.  This may contribute to the sense of entitlement that some
> develop.  It certainly does provide a venue for those wanting to party.
>
> I observed several youngsters in 2015 that didn't seem much interested in
> making progress up the trail.  Rather, they drifted back & forth between
> Trail Houses.  They show up calling themselves "volunteers" to ingratiate
> themselves with the hosts.  One of them admitted to me that he solicited &
> received cash for his "volunteer work"  Trail Angels should limit their
> services to helping injured hikers, dealing with emergencies, etc.  If
> hiker houses did not exist on the PCT, I think most of these problem
> individuals would quickly disappear from the trail.
>
>
> *Tom Brokaw*
> *Corporate Project Manager*
> *Monterey Mushrooms*
> *777 Maher Ct*
> *Royal Oaks, CA 95076-9014*
> *C: 831-535-2181 <831-535-2181>*
> *O: 831-274-5520 <831-274-5520>*
>
>
>
> From:        marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> To:        Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>,
> Cc:        "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Date:        01/09/2016 02:48 PM
> Subject:        Re: [pct-l] Echo Chalet no longer a resupply point /
> troublemakers on the trail
> Sent by:        Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> My longer letter (that will be published in the Gazette)concerning these
> issues and others was more low keyed and much more polite. I wanted to give
> room for people to read it and think about these behaviors without needing
> to immediately defend and excuse them. Some people have lived in
> environments where behavior like this is considered normal. Maybe no one
> has ever challenged that thought. But if you can't make it from town to
> town without getting drunk and stupid there's something wrong. I'm all for
> hikers getting help out there is it gives room for more people to imagine
> they can do a trail and get out there to have the experience. But, if you
> can't do the trail without harming it---Stay home.
> Marmot
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 9, 2016, at 2:29 PM, Andrea Dinsmore <
> andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
> >
> > Marmot Marmot......thank you for your words on this subject. It's been
> > slowly creeping in and ruining the trail for all. Some people don't like
> > the word Entitlement but that's exactly what it comes down to. Some think
> > they can and will do, whatever they want to impress their
> > buddies.......they don't care what the effects are on the trail or the
> > others who hike it. We had a couple of groups that hit Skykomish last
> year
> > that weren't happy with our No Alcohol rule and they decided to stay in
> > town. Most decided to camp under the bridge ( not allowed) and party and
> > leave their mess and be a pain. Got the attention of the Mayor. No one
> > (except the hikers) were happy about it. Some actually shelled out money
> to
> > stay in the small Hotel. Unfortunately the Hotel had to clean up the
> vomit
> > and the mess there. It left a really poor taste in the mouth of all the
> > businesses and the locals of how the low class some hikers are becoming.
> >
> > The one's who are the screw ups don't give a hoot. They are on a 5 month
> > roving party and will never be back to this trail or any other. They
> think
> > this whole subject is funny.
> >
> > How many more years before everyone who deals with the 5% of 2000+ hikers
> > who are abusive decide to close their doors to all hikers ??
> >
> > The other 95% of the responsible hikers are not impressed with those who
> > act like sloppy animals. But they are the ones paying for it.
> >
> > Andrea Dinsmore
> > PCT MOM
> > Skykomish/Baring, WA.
> > Dinsmore's Hiker Haven
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 12:04 PM, marmot marmot <
> marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Have you read Aspen's book about her recent hike of the PCT? I read it
> two
> >> months ago but couldn't talk about it until now.
> >> The monsters ( I won't call them hikers) who terrorized and killed a
> >> marmot in the Sierra are beyond any comment. Every time I think of it I
> >> feel ill.
> >> For those who are planning to hike the trail. Here are behaviors that I
> >> would have never thought would have to be addressed
> >> •
> >> 1. You do not kill or harm in any way ANY of the animals
> >> That includes finding it funny or something to be proud of,to do
> without a
> >> bear canister in the Sierra(you do  harm to the Bears by teaching them
> that
> >> they can get food from hikers ,just as all of the serious hikers have
> been
> >> trying to teach differently). That also includes rattlers--I don't care
> how
> >> stupid and scared you are. Walk around them.
> >> 2. If you can't have a drink or two and stop ,when you get to town ,you
> >> need to stop drinking completely. You are screwing it up for everyone.
> You
> >> just don't remember how obnoxious you are. Drunks,stoners,immature
> idiots
> >> are just tiresome to everyone but themselves.
> >> 3. You don't steal from anyone--- hikers, trail Angels,towns people.
> >> 4. You don't "poor mouth" so that you can mooch food or stay at a hostel
> >> for free so that you can buy liquor or dope. I saw this over and over
> on my
> >> Myth from 2006 to 1213 and again last year when I went out again for the
> >> first 700 miles. Eventually those people get a reputation but it's
> >> unpleasant until the other hikers figure it out.
> >> If no one has taught you how to act around others it's time to learn.
> >> There have always been people on the long trails with different income
> >> levels. Hikers used to wash in creeks,camp out just short of town and
> come
> >> in to resupply if they could not afford to stay. On the PCT and the CDT
> >> ,the first time,I never had a pack that didn't have clothes drying on
> it.
> >> It is one of thing that you learned how to do. I don't care if you are
> 16
> >> or 90. You don't get to harm the trail. The trail includes everything
>  out
> >> there--trail tread,animals,people,towns
> >> It's time to treat this behavior just it should be. Call it out.
> >> Marmot
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>>> On Jan 9, 2016, at 10:23 AM, "jcil000-hiker at yahoo.com" <
> >>> jcil000-hiker at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The post by Tim Crum doesn't surprise me.
> >>> The troublemakers of the world always find a way to ruin life for
> >> themajority of us just trying to enjoy life.
> >>> I live in San Francisco and observe the annual Bay To Breakers7.1 mile
> >> fun run each year. Its an annual event that has been goingon now for
> over
> >> 100 years. Each year corporate donations (sponsors)have allowed a good
> >> amount of operating cash and expertise to help keepit operating. In the
> >> 1980s, the participant numbers were over 100,000 joggersand a hundred
> or so
> >> actual seeded runners up front.
> >>> About four years ago, the entire operation nearly ended as those
> >> corporatedonors decided they didn't want to be associated with the
> problems
> >> createdby the troublemakers including peeing in private residential
> >> driveways, leavingtheir beer cans along the streets, and just creating a
> >> drunk binge en mass. Thefamily atmosphere was poisoned as parents
> couldn't
> >> bring their little kids due tothe exhibitionists who were running around
> >> naked as if we all wanted to see that.
> >>> It was only with the promise by the City of SF and its police
> department
> >> that they wouldclean it all up that new corporate donors stepped
> forward to
> >> help. As it now is,we have only the one yucky problem of some ELDERLY
> NAKED
> >> MAN standing everymile or so. The police are confronting the drunks,
> >> seizing their booze, and / or haulingthem off to the drunk tank.
> >>> The PCT was / is a beautiful concept for everyone to enjoy. I'm not
> sure
> >> what mightbe done about the trouble makers. For every 100 hikers who
> simply
> >> wants to backpack, there is one who thinks its funny to cause trouble in
> >> any way possible. Eventhrough vandalism and theft. I've read more than a
> >> few cases where packers foundtheir gear stolen by other packers.
> >>> Day Early
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Pct-L mailing list
> >>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> >>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>>
> >>> List Archives:
> >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> >>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pct-L mailing list
> >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>
> >> List Archives:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>