[pct-l] Echo Chalet no longer a resupply point / troublemakers on the trail

Sat Jan 9 16:55:04 CST 2016

Hello all,

Long time lurker. PCT class of 2016 hopeful.
Wish there were ways for the trail to be self enforcing.  Just as "creepers" can be blocked and flagged as spammers on a list like this or "unfriended" on social media sites or even rated poorly so the only way to reign in the 5% in any community is the 95% making the troublemakers life difficult for violating community standards.  I know nobody wants to be judged, but a community that does not self enforce gets identified by the misbehavers. 

I know the AT angel network communicates about the bad apples and they have more leverage because there are more hostels.  In the olden days town sheriffs could just walk up to strangers and tell them..."you're not welcome here...move along."

Just food for thought.

Cobble,
aka Stephen Underkofler

> On Jan 9, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
> 
> Marmot Marmot......thank you for your words on this subject. It's been
> slowly creeping in and ruining the trail for all. Some people don't like
> the word Entitlement but that's exactly what it comes down to. Some think
> they can and will do, whatever they want to impress their
> buddies.......they don't care what the effects are on the trail or the
> others who hike it. We had a couple of groups that hit Skykomish last year
> that weren't happy with our No Alcohol rule and they decided to stay in
> town. Most decided to camp under the bridge ( not allowed) and party and
> leave their mess and be a pain. Got the attention of the Mayor. No one
> (except the hikers) were happy about it. Some actually shelled out money to
> stay in the small Hotel. Unfortunately the Hotel had to clean up the vomit
> and the mess there. It left a really poor taste in the mouth of all the
> businesses and the locals of how the low class some hikers are becoming.
> 
> The one's who are the screw ups don't give a hoot. They are on a 5 month
> roving party and will never be back to this trail or any other. They think
> this whole subject is funny.
> 
> How many more years before everyone who deals with the 5% of 2000+ hikers
> who are abusive decide to close their doors to all hikers ??
> 
> The other 95% of the responsible hikers are not impressed with those who
> act like sloppy animals. But they are the ones paying for it.
> 
> Andrea Dinsmore
> PCT MOM
> Skykomish/Baring, WA.
> Dinsmore's Hiker Haven
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 12:04 PM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Have you read Aspen's book about her recent hike of the PCT? I read it two
>> months ago but couldn't talk about it until now.
>> The monsters ( I won't call them hikers) who terrorized and killed a
>> marmot in the Sierra are beyond any comment. Every time I think of it I
>> feel ill.
>> For those who are planning to hike the trail. Here are behaviors that I
>> would have never thought would have to be addressed
>> •
>> 1. You do not kill or harm in any way ANY of the animals
>> That includes finding it funny or something to be proud of,to do without a
>> bear canister in the Sierra(you do  harm to the Bears by teaching them that
>> they can get food from hikers ,just as all of the serious hikers have been
>> trying to teach differently). That also includes rattlers--I don't care how
>> stupid and scared you are. Walk around them.
>> 2. If you can't have a drink or two and stop ,when you get to town ,you
>> need to stop drinking completely. You are screwing it up for everyone. You
>> just don't remember how obnoxious you are. Drunks,stoners,immature idiots
>> are just tiresome to everyone but themselves.
>> 3. You don't steal from anyone--- hikers, trail Angels,towns people.
>> 4. You don't "poor mouth" so that you can mooch food or stay at a hostel
>> for free so that you can buy liquor or dope. I saw this over and over on my
>> Myth from 2006 to 1213 and again last year when I went out again for the
>> first 700 miles. Eventually those people get a reputation but it's
>> unpleasant until the other hikers figure it out.
>> If no one has taught you how to act around others it's time to learn.
>> There have always been people on the long trails with different income
>> levels. Hikers used to wash in creeks,camp out just short of town and come
>> in to resupply if they could not afford to stay. On the PCT and the CDT
>> ,the first time,I never had a pack that didn't have clothes drying on it.
>> It is one of thing that you learned how to do. I don't care if you are 16
>> or 90. You don't get to harm the trail. The trail includes everything  out
>> there--trail tread,animals,people,towns
>> It's time to treat this behavior just it should be. Call it out.
>> Marmot
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jan 9, 2016, at 10:23 AM, "jcil000-hiker at yahoo.com" <
>>> jcil000-hiker at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The post by Tim Crum doesn't surprise me.
>>> The troublemakers of the world always find a way to ruin life for
>> themajority of us just trying to enjoy life.
>>> I live in San Francisco and observe the annual Bay To Breakers7.1 mile
>> fun run each year. Its an annual event that has been goingon now for over
>> 100 years. Each year corporate donations (sponsors)have allowed a good
>> amount of operating cash and expertise to help keepit operating. In the
>> 1980s, the participant numbers were over 100,000 joggersand a hundred or so
>> actual seeded runners up front.
>>> About four years ago, the entire operation nearly ended as those
>> corporatedonors decided they didn't want to be associated with the problems
>> createdby the troublemakers including peeing in private residential
>> driveways, leavingtheir beer cans along the streets, and just creating a
>> drunk binge en mass. Thefamily atmosphere was poisoned as parents couldn't
>> bring their little kids due tothe exhibitionists who were running around
>> naked as if we all wanted to see that.
>>> It was only with the promise by the City of SF and its police department
>> that they wouldclean it all up that new corporate donors stepped forward to
>> help. As it now is,we have only the one yucky problem of some ELDERLY NAKED
>> MAN standing everymile or so. The police are confronting the drunks,
>> seizing their booze, and / or haulingthem off to the drunk tank.
>>> The PCT was / is a beautiful concept for everyone to enjoy. I'm not sure
>> what mightbe done about the trouble makers. For every 100 hikers who simply
>> wants to backpack, there is one who thinks its funny to cause trouble in
>> any way possible. Eventhrough vandalism and theft. I've read more than a
>> few cases where packers foundtheir gear stolen by other packers.
>>> Day Early
>>> 
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