[pct-l] Cheap down jackets

Tue Nov 10 09:10:55 CST 2015

I totally get it. I am/was having a hard time deciding to go with a
quilt, comforter or bag...for two of us. I found a WM Terra that fit
the bill. It will mate with my Alpinlite, without all the hoods that
are a nuisance (although it does have a basic hood). I like it because
I can open it completely and use it as a quilt. We can also still
divide the weight. We are on horses, and everything needs to be
perfectly balanced, within a few ounces on either side. Putting even a
twin quilt on one side takes a lot of space and I don't have anything
to balance it with...so we went with the two units...and stayed with
the down. I also hear that synthetic bags matt and only last about 5
years. Just for the record, I still have a down bag that I bought in
1977 and it still has all the loft it originally had. I take care of
my bags and wash them properly and store them properly. Golly

	-----------------------------------------From: "Tim Umstead" 
To: "Gail Van Velzer"
Cc: "Melanie Clarke", "Alec Groff", "PCT"
Sent: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 22:29:17 -0800
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Cheap down jackets

  I agree that down is still the way to go. I have not yet seen a
synthetic that can match down. I think someday synthetics will beat
out down but not yet. I was just looking at the Montbell U.L.
Thermawrap Jacket at 8.4 oz it is lighter then my Uniqlo Ultra Light
at 9.1 oz. Ok we are talking about less then an ounce, but the temp
difference to greater. Reading the reviews off of the Montbell site
people put the Thermawrap at a mid 40 degree jacket. Just a few months
ago I was using the Uniqlo down to freezing and it was performing
well. No extra layers needed.   
   Yes down is a problem when it gets wet, packing for rain is an art
unto itself. The only time I had a problem with wet down was when a 2L
platypus emptied into our down sleeping bag. I do not care if it was
down or a synthetic bag, 2L of water in a sleeping bag is not a good
thing.       On a side note, the way synthetic bags are now, I could
never use one, they just do not pack down small enough. Right now my
wife and I use a ZPacks 900 fill Power Down Twin size Quit with
dry-loft. It weights in at 30.75 oz and it takes up about half of my
wife's pack. If I were to use a synthetic bag almost all of her pack
would be used for just the sleeping bag. That would be a big waste of
space.        The Ravens   PCT '96 and '15    
  On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 9:45 PM,  wrote:
   I have to disagree. I have used down for over 40 years and never
had a problem. I agree that when it's wet you lose the ability to keep
warm, but why is it wet? Never had that problem, not in a jacket and
not in a sleeping bag. If it's clumped in a ball, like after being
squished, then just shake it and it will even out again. I'm not sure
of the "goose" story, but I know a lot of geese and ducks are eaten in
Asia and that's where a lot of our down comes from. I can't imagine
pulling feathers out of live animals. I have seen factories where down
is processed and seperated into different grades. Sure, synthetics are
an option, but I really don't think they keep you any warmer than
down, especially for the weight.  Golly   

	----------------------------------------- From: "Melanie Clarke" 
 To: "Alec Groff"
 Cc: "PCT", "Tim Umstead"
 Sent: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 20:58:33 -0800
 Subject: Re: [pct-l] Cheap down jackets

 There are 2 reasons I would not recommend down. If it gets a little
bit
 wet, it loses the ability to keep you warm. While hiking with a
through
 PCT hiker in 2011, he had an invisible small hole in his raincoat.
When it
 rained just after Big Bear, he became very hypothermic. Down also
loses
 it's loft after being compressed for long periods of time, like in a
pack.
 Hold an old down jacket or sleeping bag up to the light. You will see
how
 the down is clumped in a ball in the middle with lots of space all
around
 it. This is not keeping you warm. Also on the same 2011 PCT hike, I
froze
 at night for this reason. My Down bag had been on a couple of section
 hikes and was a couple years old.

  There are a lot of great synthetic ultra light options for jackets
like *8.4
 ounces, Montbell U.L. Thermawrap Jacket*. REI, Patagonia, Northface,
all   
 have great cheap ultra light synthetic options. Montbell also makes 9
 ounce Thermawrap pants. Use Thermawrap pants at night to supplement
your
 sleep system in the colder months and send it home when it gets warm.

 The second reason to avoid down is that there is too much demand for
cheap
 down to raise geese and kill them for a little bit of down. Now they
pull
 the down out of alive screaming geese. When it grows back, they pull
it
 out of them again. This is a very cruel and painful way of life for a
 beautiful creature who feels pain. It is wrong to support this
cruelty to
 save a couple ounces of weight, boo hoo or a little bit of money.

 Mountain Laurel Designs makes an excellent ultra light 21 ounce
synthetic
 quilt with a 4 ounce Balaclava. I sleep cold and this definitely kept
me
 warm down to 28 degrees even when the bag was wet from the night
before. I
 hiked all the CDT sections in Glacier this year.

 So, synthetic will keep you warmer, longer for just one or two more
ounces
 and does not support cruelty.

 Diet Plan

 On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Alec Groff  wrote:

 > I used a Kirkland down jacket on the PCT thru hike as well. Got it
a couple
 > years ago. High quality 800 full down with nice shell as well. Bpl
had an
 > article comparing it to Patagonia down sweater.
 > On Nov 6, 2015 1:09 PM, "Tim Umstead"  wrote:
 >
 > > We will attest to the quality of the Uniqlo down jackets. All
four of my
 > > family members had Uniqlo ultra light down jackets on this year's
PCT
 > > thru-hike. The coats are well made and very warm. They went the
entire
 > > 2658 miles without any type of failure. I would definitely buy
them
 > again
 > > when I need a new down jacket. Also Uniqlo sells inexpensive
fleece
 > > jackets. On a side note, the left hand zippers did take time to
get use
 > > to.
 > >
 > > The Ravens
 > > PCT '96 and '15
 > > _______________________________________________
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