[pct-l] Cheap down jackets

Tue Nov 10 00:29:17 CST 2015

I agree that down is still the way to go.  I have not yet seen a synthetic
that can match down.  I think someday synthetics will beat out down but not
yet.  I was just looking at the Montbell U.L. Thermawrap Jacket at 8.4 oz
it is lighter then my Uniqlo Ultra Light at 9.1 oz.  Ok we are talking
about less then an ounce, but the temp difference to greater.  Reading the
reviews off of the Montbell site people put the Thermawrap at a mid 40
degree jacket.  Just a few months ago I was using the Uniqlo down to
freezing and it was performing well.  No extra layers needed.

Yes down is a problem when it gets wet, packing for rain is an art unto
itself.  The only time I had a problem with wet down was when a 2L
platypus emptied into our down sleeping bag.  I do not care if it was down
or a synthetic bag, 2L of water in a sleeping bag is not a good thing.

On a side note, the way synthetic bags are now, I could never use one, they
just do not pack down small enough.  Right now my wife and I use a ZPacks
900 fill Power Down Twin size Quit with dry-loft.  It weights in at 30.75
oz and it takes up about half of my wife's pack.  If I were to use
a synthetic bag almost all of her pack would be used for just the sleeping
bag.  That would be a big waste of space.

The Ravens
PCT '96 and '15

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 9:45 PM, <vanvelzer at charter.net> wrote:

> I have to disagree.  I have used down for over 40 years and never had a
> problem.  I agree that when it's wet you lose the ability to keep warm, but
> why is it wet?  Never had that problem, not in a jacket and not in a
> sleeping bag.  If it's clumped in a ball, like after being squished, then
> just shake it and it will even out again.  I'm not sure of the "goose"
> story, but I know a lot of geese and ducks are eaten in Asia and that's
> where a lot of our down comes from.  I can't imagine pulling feathers out
> of live animals.  I have seen factories where down is processed and
> seperated into different grades.  Sure, synthetics are an option, but I
> really don't think they keep you any warmer than down, especially for the
> weight.
> Golly
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> From: "Melanie Clarke"
> To: "Alec Groff"
> Cc: "PCT", "Tim Umstead"
> Sent: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 20:58:33 -0800
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Cheap down jackets
>
> There are 2 reasons I would not recommend down. If it gets a little bit
> wet, it loses the ability to keep you warm. While hiking with a through
> PCT hiker in 2011, he had an invisible small hole in his raincoat. When it
> rained just after Big Bear, he became very hypothermic. Down also loses
> it's loft after being compressed for long periods of time, like in a pack.
> Hold an old down jacket or sleeping bag up to the light. You will see how
> the down is clumped in a ball in the middle with lots of space all around
> it. This is not keeping you warm. Also on the same 2011 PCT hike, I froze
> at night for this reason. My Down bag had been on a couple of section
> hikes and was a couple years old.
>
> There are a lot of great synthetic ultra light options for jackets like
> *8.4
> ounces, Montbell U.L. Thermawrap Jacket*. REI, Patagonia, Northface, all
>
> have great cheap ultra light synthetic options. Montbell also makes 9
> ounce Thermawrap pants. Use Thermawrap pants at night to supplement your
> sleep system in the colder months and send it home when it gets warm.
>
> The second reason to avoid down is that there is too much demand for cheap
> down to raise geese and kill them for a little bit of down. Now they pull
> the down out of alive screaming geese. When it grows back, they pull it
> out of them again. This is a very cruel and painful way of life for a
> beautiful creature who feels pain. It is wrong to support this cruelty to
> save a couple ounces of weight, boo hoo or a little bit of money.
>
> Mountain Laurel Designs makes an excellent ultra light 21 ounce synthetic
> quilt with a 4 ounce Balaclava. I sleep cold and this definitely kept me
> warm down to 28 degrees even when the bag was wet from the night before. I
> hiked all the CDT sections in Glacier this year.
>
> So, synthetic will keep you warmer, longer for just one or two more ounces
> and does not support cruelty.
>
> Diet Plan
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Alec Groff <ajgroff at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I used a Kirkland down jacket on the PCT thru hike as well. Got it a
> couple
> > years ago. High quality 800 full down with nice shell as well. Bpl had an
> > article comparing it to Patagonia down sweater.
> > On Nov 6, 2015 1:09 PM, "Tim Umstead" <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > We will attest to the quality of the Uniqlo down jackets. All four of
> my
> > > family members had Uniqlo ultra light down jackets on this year's PCT
> > > thru-hike. The coats are well made and very warm. They went the entire
> > > 2658 miles without any type of failure. I would definitely buy them
> > again
> > > when I need a new down jacket. Also Uniqlo sells inexpensive fleece
> > > jackets. On a side note, the left hand zippers did take time to get use
> > > to.
> > >
> > > The Ravens
> > > PCT '96 and '15
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