[pct-l] Alcohol and Esbit Stoves

[tsparks56 at aol.com]

Brick, at first I thought the problem was a reading comprehension problem but, now I think it's more of a misunderstanding of what the word  "control' is defined as, for this application.  To help you along, I have taken the liberty of providing a copy of the definition of "control" for you. 

con·trol
  [kuhn-trohl]  Show IPA  
  
 verb (used with object), con·trolled, con·trol·ling.  
1. 
to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command. 

2. 
to hold in check; curb: to control a horse; to control one's emotions.  

3. 
to test or verify (a scientific experiment) by a parallel experiment or other standard of comparison. 

4. 
to eliminate or prevent the flourishing or spread of: to control a forest fire.  

5. 
Obsolete . to check or regulate (transactions), originally by means of a duplicate register.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/control

Brick, if you think I'm being an ass about this, it is because you, as the moderator of this list should hold yourself to a higher standard for everyone to follow, especially when it comes to safety issues and, if need be, error on the side of caution and common sense. If you don't completely understand the wording of this BLM order, all that needs to be understood, of which I do, is to understand the intent of the BLM directive. 
If you want to play games with the wording and pretend you don't understand something as important as this, please keep it to yourself.  As for you being the moderator of this board, I beg you to present yourself to having a higher standard, especially for the very inexperienced hikers among us to follow.  
We don't need an accidental fire on the trail and I don't want to attend anymore Fire Fighters funerals. 

Thank you,

Terry Sparks
34 years, Los Angeles County Fire Department (retired)



-----Original Message-----
From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Wed, Apr 9, 2014 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Alcohol and Esbit Stoves


On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Ken Murray <kmurray at dr.com> wrote:
>  *Setting, building, maintaining, attending, or using open fire of any kind is 
prohibited in the*
>  *designated area. *Controlled flame devices such as portable stoves fueled by 
petroleum or LPG products
> are allowed only by permit.
>
> Brick, you left out the first sentence. The second sentence provides an 
exception to the first. Alcohol and Esbit would clearly be banned, because 
neither runs on "Petroleum or LPG products"

And you left out the words "SUCH AS" which does not strictly limit the
type of stoves to "Petroleum or LPG products" but merely uses them as
examples.

I don't think the PCTA should have changed the words "SUCH AS" to "ONLY."

> I think this is crystal clear. Brick, if you don't, why don't you call the BLM 
and ask for clarification?

I did. The person who answered the phone didn't know, and was going to
get back to me. I'm still waiting.

My beef with this is that laws and regulation should be clear.

The USFS order clearly mandates stoves with a shutoff valve. The BLM
order does not.  Some  folks are assuming that "controlled flame"
means the same as "has a shutoff valve" without a really good basis.
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