[pct-l] GPS?

Thu Feb 7 05:04:25 CST 2013

I have the impression that many carry smartphones (iPhones/Androids)
virtually all of which include GPS (aGPS).  I would do the same as much for
the town connectivity/phone/music as for the GPS.

However, do the GPSs in these devices need a data connection (Wi-Fi or
cellular) ?  As I understand it aGPSs can operate in different ways, some
just using the data connection to download new aGPS data for a faster fix
(every few days), but the GPS will still work without such data but taking
longer to get a fix (MSB mode).  Others need the data connection to pass
GPS signals to a aGPS server which processes them and returns the fix (MSA
mode).  So does anybody know if the phone the aGPSs will operate as
straight GPSs (i.e. without the "a").

Background: seems that for an occasional backup assistance, the GPS in a
smartphone does not mean extra weight,  and might still help, all be it
with limitations (e.g. limited battery life).

Fred

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Ned Tibbits <ned at mountaineducation.org>wrote:

> As Mango illustrates through his experiences along the trail, even when
> following tracks of others in the snow ahead of them, it is easy to get
> "off-track" and waste a lot of time wandering around looking for it.
>
> Unless you are sufficiently far enough back in the herd to have a clear and
> deep trough to follow, a lot of the people in the forefront wander a bit
> while hiking over snow in the general direction they think they're to go.
>
> The problem through the sierra is that below timberline, when you're hiking
> through dense or even sparse trees, the trees block your view of high
> landmarks by which you need to navigate, so it can be really easy to get
> turned around or at least head up the wrong canyon or creek fork.
>
> Yes, a topo along with a keen awareness of your surroundings can get you
> where you want to go over snow, but you need to know how to "read" the
> topo,
> translating the one-dimension on paper to compare it to the three-dimension
> in front of you and you need to be attentive to the geography around you.
> If
> you're too busy talking in a group or just flying along not paying much
> attention, it is very easy to become "temporarily misplaced."
>
> Above timberline, as many have said, it is easier to navigate by
> line-of-sight because you can see those high landmarks, peaks, and passes,
> identify they with the topo, and simply head toward them.
>
> The need for the GPS comes in handy, therefore, down in the trees. Now,
> even
> when you're truckin' right along from Pass to Pass, mostly above
> timberline,
> between those passes your route will descend down into the trees, then
> further down to some big creek that you'll have to wade through, only to
> abruptly ascend back up through trees to snowline again. It is down in
> these
> tree-filled creek drainages that most folks get lost for a period of time.
> This is where the GPS rules. And the trees only become more numerous as
> your
> average elevation drops the further north you go, so if you think you can
> get by without one in the sierra, you may still need one the closer you get
> to Tahoe.
>
> I'll never forget the day just south of Richardson Lake on the PCT/TRT west
> of Tahoe two years ago when three PCT thru hikers flew by Lady J and I as
> we
> were following the trail on 6 to 8 feet of snow (in late June). We were
> navigating through dense trees while traversing along a broad ridge, we
> couldn't see more than 80 feet in front of us, we had our GPS out so we
> could "see" whether the trail was to our right or left, we couldn't move
> very fast because of these situations, and we could hear these guys coming
> up through the forest behind us, crashing through branches as they came,
>
> They needed to make the miles, so they were in a hurry. We talked briefly
> when they met us, but they didn't have it in them to stop for long. So, off
> they went, first the leader, then the followers. First they went along the
> traverse, then turned right and went toward the ridgeline. The trail didn't
> go that way, but they did. Pretty soon they came back toward us searching
> for the route, only to bisect it and drop below the trail. Pretty soon they
> came back up the slope and crossed the "trail" again and headed back up to
> the ridge. We never saw their tracks again even though we deliberately
> stayed on top of the summer trail (we were practicing how to do this) for
> the next several days!
>
> There are several lessons to be learned from all this,
> - people wander when trying to figure out where the trail is when beneath
> snow.
> - haste burns a lot of energy and isn't worth it when snow-hiking.
> - the old adage still applies, "Go slow to go fast."
> - a GPS unit is invaluable for knowing where you are in relation to where
> the trail is when in trees.
> - know how to "read" a topo map and compare what it's telling you about
> your
> surroundings to what you see in front of you.
> - yes, any electronic device can fail, so don't solely rely on it. You can
> get through the woods on snow without one, but it takes a lot more savvy,
> experience, and training.
>
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> www.mountaineducation.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim & Jane Moody
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 5:30 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] GPS?
>
>
>
> Daniel,
>
> Like a lot of questions, the answer is "it depends".  If you are
> thru-hiking
> nobo with the herd, you probably won't need one, since by the time you get
> into the Sierra, you'll probably be with a group, one of whom might have a
> GPS.  Also, the less snow in the Sierra, the less likely you are to need
> one.
>
>
>
> However, if you are starting very early, going sobo, going alone, and/or
> sectioning in front of the herd in a heavy snow year,  then a GPS will come
> in handy.  I didn't take one in 2010 (thru-hike attempt), but it would have
> saved some time in the Sierra.  Our "team" of 5 had 3 different sets of
> maps, a couple of compasses, and one GPS, which almost never got used.
> However, due to Shroomer getting us lost almost daily, we really should
> have
> used the GPS more often to save time spent zig-zagging, backtracking, and
> heading up the wrong ravine. (Just kidding, Shroomer).
>
>
>
> In 2011 I started WAY TOO EARLY at Sonora Pass and spent the equivalent of
> several days trying to navigate with just a map & compass.  Many times I
> was
> frustrated and disheartened by not knowing where I was or where the trail
> was, so a GPS would have been wonderful.  In 2012 I started north from
> Chester in late July and had no navigation problems at all.  I did,
> however,
> carry a GPS with Halfmile's maps, tracks, a nd waypoints on it, which gave
> me a great feeling of confidence (I also carried map & compass).  I used
> the
> GPS frequently  to confirm what I already knew and to get practice in using
> it.
>
>
>
> For me, I will be carrying one every time I'm on the PCT.  It's kinda like
> a
> first aid kit - you hope you don't need it at all, but if you need it, you
> REALLY n e ed it.  And if you get one, be sure to load Halfmile's maps,
> tracks, and waypoints.  As an alternative, y ou might try the cheapest (and
> lightest) model that only gives location in UTM coordinates , which can be
> used to determine your location on your paper map.
>
>
>
> Good luck,
>
> Mango
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Daniel Salazar" <techtravel7 at gmail.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 5:47:36 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] GPS?
>
> Is it necessary to have a GPS on the trail or is it just extra?
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