[pct-l] NO BIKES SIGNS

[Fred Walters]

[Zorglub said] "*Welcome us on the trail (with our bikes) ... and a
decrease on renegade riding.*"

[Fred replied] Also, if you legalise bank robbery you will see a drop in
the crime rate.

Fred

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:16 AM, Zorglub <azorglub at yahoo.com> wrote:

> All this talk about degrading the trail just to ward off cyclists is a
> little like cutting your nose to spite your face.  Nobody wants to degrade
> anything.  Cyclists just want to share and enjoy portions of the PCT with
> other fellow trail users.  Welcome us on the trail (with our bikes) and you
> will get additional manpower to work on the trails, and a decrease on
> renegade riding.
>
> I'm glad to see though that a few members of the list have warmed up to
> the idea and can see the benefits of having additional people using the
> trail.
>
> Sharing is a good thing.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> >In regards to leaving step over trees on the trail: A few issues with
> this approach. 1)  The bikers will ride around the down trees where they
> can, cutting in new user trails, which will degrade the environment,
> especially in fragile meadows with the occasional single tree or open
> forest on flat to slight hill side terrain.
> 2)  Where they can't go around per (1), chances are they'll turn it into a
> little jump / log hop.  Logs up to about 10-12" are able to be hopped by a
> moderately skilled rider.   3)  Where the log is too large to simply "pop"
> the front, then back, wheel over as per (2), they'll turn it into an
> obstacle often seen on MTB specific trails where there is a pyramid shape
> of logs, ramping up to the the large log, then ramping down on the other
> side.  This is pretty common on the MTB trails I ride with logs in the 15 -
> 18" range.  Wuhoo!  This hiker trail is now becoming a MTB skill park. 4)
> Where (3) is impractical, the MTBers will engage in guerrilla trail crew,
> cutting out the logs with chain saws - possibly including in Wilderness
> (where they'll be encroaching anyways).  In my experience, especially this
> trail season here around Snoqualmie Pass, the guerrilla sawyers do not
> clear the trail to standard, do not remove the cut pieces to standard,
>  don't cut the logs wide enough, especially on the up hill side, and some
> times engage in "tagging" of the cut logs - carving names / initials /
> other graffiti in the ends.  In short, they do a poor job of it, requiring
> properly trained crews to go and cut the logs again to clear the trail to
> standard and to remove the tagging that is carved into the cut ends of the
> log.  In addition, untrained sawyers are a danger to themselves and any
> passing trail users. As to the suggestion of log / rock water bars:   The
> best installation to deter bikes would be at a skew angle, just above and
> below a switch back (such that they'll come around the corner and hit it
> with minimal visual warning at typical bike speeds on the down hill, and
> difficult to pop over when going up hill while setting up for a turn and
> even more difficult to pop over while exiting a turn).   One other feature
> that would be difficult to ride would be back to back
> water bars, spaced such that when the front wheel is "popped" over the
> first one, it'll come down just in front of the 2nd one, just as the
> rear wheel hits the first one, naturally pitching bike and rider
> forward.  Most riders won't be able to "pop" the front wheel over the
> 2nd bar, and combined with a skew angle, would result in a sudden
> deceleration with ground impact.  The down side of exposed water bars is
> that they're "old school" drainage structures and hence aren't as effective
> as newer designs where the bar is fully buried to reinforce the ramp that
> is part of the drain up hill a couple feet from the bar.
> http://www.pcta.org/pdf/trail-skills-college/curriculum/203_Waterbars_&_Checks_v0311.pdfOf course, I would expect the MTBers, in typical fashion, to vandalize the
> trail by either ripping out any such deterrent double bar structures or
> building / beating in user detour trails, just as they vandalize it by
> riding on it today.
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