[pct-l] hiker trash

Tue Jun 7 12:56:55 CDT 2011

Wow, that is an awesome email--well contemplated, well said.  My 24-year-old, wonderful son (trail name "Push") is on the thru-trail, and I hope to high heaven he is not one of these hiker trash people.  I sincerely doubt it, but loving mothers can be delirious.  Thank you all for what you do, and I personally despise and reject the trash, all the time sincerely appreciating those who continue to care for the people on the trail.  Thank you.

> From: dsaufley at sprynet.com
> To: charles.doersch at gmail.com; jomike at cot.net
> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:12:28 -0700
> CC: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hiker trash
> 
> If you are going to host hikers, you are going to have hiker trash. I find
> the outrage about hikers behaving like human beings to be misplaced. Any
> expectation that they are perfect models of cleanliness or consideration is
> flatly wrong. They are probably slobs in their own homes and in their
> mother's homes too. My son has been a total slob in my home, despite my
> admonitions, though the Army helped him immensely in this regard. For all
> we know the hikers' mothers or family are slobs. My son has friends whose
> parents are hoarders and live in squalor. How could their offspring have
> learned differently? 
> 
> Individuals tend to be more conscientious about leaving things neat and in
> order. Groups are something else altogether. Everyone thinks someone else
> is drinking that abandoned drink, or eating from that plate of food sitting
> on the table. Oddly, they ARE being considerate of others by leaving it
> there. If you're lucky, there's someone in the group (typically young women
> but not always) who will take responsibility for cleaning up. But you can't
> count on that. Some twenty-something kid's idea of clean and my idea of
> clean are definitely not the same.
> 
> My dad had a saying that has helped me mentally in dealing with hiker and
> their trash: if you want something done the way you want it done, you have
> to do it yourself. No one else knows what you want unless you instruct them.
> I don't have the time to train everyone that comes through on how I want
> things cleaned, so I've found it easier to handle cleaning myself. The past
> few years I've had volunteers who've stayed during the season to help with
> the cleaning and laundry chores. They've been an absolute godsend. 
> 
> There is another popular saying that is also applicable: if you can't stand
> the heat, get out of the kitchen. 
> 
> L-Rod
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Charles Doersch
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 4:37 PM
> To: jomike at cot.net
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hiker trash
> 
> Has anyone seen the film _Dogville_? It might relate, I think, to this
> question of some folks taking advantage of generosity and grace. I teach at
> the university, and an important challenge each year with my freshmen is
> teaching my students that as young adults they now live in a world where
> there are consequences. One way I can do that for them as a professor is to
> hold them accountable and not shelter them from the consequences of their
> behavior. I notice how little understanding some of my students have of
> consequences. They want to be treated as adults -- until they want to be
> "taken care of." No, I say, you can't have it both ways. Grace is
> reciprocal.
> 
> I also recognize that as they pass through university, the best of them come
> to respect those who hold them accountable for their achievement, their
> successes, and for their failures. Some people just don't respect a kind and
> caring heart.
> 
> I rather think the trail community hasn't "created" or fostered young men
> who don't have common courtesy -- perhaps, among the many grateful, gracious
> hikers on the PCT, there will inevitably and always be some who are
> attracted to folks who dole out goodies, and take advantage, as long as
> there are no consequences. So yes, PCT Mom, some of these guys and gals
> would indeed be (and are) slobs in their parents' homes. If they can get
> away with it.
> 
> But, since I'm still a PCT virgin (2012 here we come), I have no
> constructive or practical insight, I think, on how there can be
> consequences. The PCT trail culture is still something I have only read
> about.
> 
> ~Charles & the gang.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:25 PM, <jomike at cot.net> wrote:
> 
> > You wouldn't be a slob in your
> > Mom's or Gramma's house. Don't do it out here.
> >
> > PCT MOM
> > ---------------------------------------------
> >
> > You're more of an optimist than I about this issue...I believe they would
> > be just as inappropriate, by our standards, at their family's homes. I
> think
> > "we", the trail community at large, have created mainly young men who do
> > feel they are some how above what we'd call common courtesy. There is
> > absolutely no denying that they will have accomplished something very few
> > people can/will do, none-the-less, it exempts them from nothing. They
> should
> > not feel exempt from trail work, thank you, LNT ethics, and to simply
> > cleaning up after themselves.
> >
> > E-gads, I'm sounding old! (but I believe accurate)
> >
> > are we there yet
> >
> >
> > ...going to the mountains is going home.
> >
> > John Muir
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