[pct-l] hiker trash

[Donna Saufley]

If you are going to host hikers, you are going to have hiker trash. I find
the outrage about hikers behaving like human beings to be misplaced.  Any
expectation that they are perfect models of cleanliness or consideration is
flatly wrong. They are probably slobs in their own homes and in their
mother's homes too.  My son has been a total slob in my home, despite my
admonitions, though the Army helped him immensely in this regard.  For all
we know the hikers' mothers or family are slobs.  My son has friends whose
parents are hoarders and live in squalor.  How could their offspring have
learned differently?  

Individuals tend to be more conscientious about leaving things neat and in
order.  Groups are something else altogether.  Everyone thinks someone else
is drinking that abandoned drink, or eating from that plate of food sitting
on the table.  Oddly, they ARE being considerate of others by leaving it
there. If you're lucky, there's someone in the group (typically young women
but not always) who will take responsibility for cleaning up.  But you can't
count on that. Some twenty-something kid's idea of clean and my idea of
clean are definitely not the same.

My dad had a saying that has helped me mentally in dealing with hiker and
their trash:  if you want something done the way you want it done, you have
to do it yourself. No one else knows what you want unless you instruct them.
I don't have the time to train everyone that comes through on how I want
things cleaned, so I've found it easier to handle cleaning myself.  The past
few years I've had volunteers who've stayed during the season to help with
the cleaning and laundry chores. They've been an absolute godsend. 

There is another popular saying that is also applicable:  if you can't stand
the heat, get out of the kitchen.  

L-Rod


-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Charles Doersch
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 4:37 PM
To: jomike at cot.net
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] hiker trash

Has anyone seen the film _Dogville_? It might relate, I think, to this
question of some folks taking advantage of generosity and grace. I teach at
the university, and an important challenge each year with my freshmen is
teaching my students that as young adults they now live in a world where
there are consequences. One way I can do that for them as a professor is to
hold them accountable and not shelter them from the consequences of their
behavior. I notice how little understanding some of my students have of
consequences. They want to be treated as adults -- until they want to be
"taken care of." No, I say, you can't have it both ways. Grace is
reciprocal.

I also recognize that as they pass through university, the best of them come
to respect those who hold them accountable for their achievement, their
successes, and for their failures. Some people just don't respect a kind and
caring heart.

I rather think the trail community hasn't "created" or fostered young men
who don't have common courtesy -- perhaps, among the many grateful, gracious
hikers on the PCT, there will inevitably and always be some who are
attracted to folks who dole out goodies, and take advantage, as long as
there are no consequences. So yes, PCT Mom, some of these guys and gals
would indeed be (and are) slobs in their parents' homes. If they can get
away with it.

But, since I'm still a PCT virgin (2012 here we come), I have no
constructive or practical insight, I think, on how there can be
consequences. The PCT trail culture is still something I have only read
about.

~Charles & the gang.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:25 PM, <jomike at cot.net> wrote:

> You wouldn't be a slob in your
> Mom's or Gramma's house. Don't do it out here.
>
> PCT MOM
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> You're more of an optimist than I about this issue...I believe they would
> be just as inappropriate, by our standards, at their family's homes. I
think
> "we", the trail community at large, have created mainly young men who do
> feel they are some how above what we'd call common courtesy. There is
> absolutely no denying that they will have accomplished something very few
> people can/will do, none-the-less, it exempts them from nothing. They
should
> not feel exempt from trail work, thank you, LNT ethics, and to simply
> cleaning up after themselves.
>
> E-gads, I'm sounding old! (but I believe accurate)
>
> are we there yet
>
>
> ...going to the mountains is going home.
>
> John Muir
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