[pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Donahue 07/02/11
aslive at charter.net
aslive at charter.net
Mon Jul 11 12:43:38 CDT 2011
I thank both Ned and Steel-Eye, as well as others who take the time to
share there experience and opinions with the rest of us. As they say,
there is more than one way to skin a cat. If there was only one right
way to do a hike, all that would be needed would be one book explaining
it all. Like most hikers, I have many hiking books and still monitor
this and other lists for the variety of options they present. Viva la
difference!
Shepherd
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 9:52 AM, ned at mountaineducation.org wrote:
> Well put, Chuck!
>
>
> "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> 1106A Ski Run Blvd
> South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
> P: 888-996-8333
> F: 530-541-1456
> C: 530-721-1551
> http://www.mountaineducation.org
> ----- Original Message ----- From: CHUCK CHELIN To:
> ned at mountaineducation.org Cc: PCT-L Backcountry Sent: Friday, July
> 08, 2011 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Donahue 07/02/11
>
>
> Good morning,
>
> Ned and I are typically further apart in opinion than he represents.
> The good news is that apparently neither of us much cares what the
> other does. As it should be, he doesn’t try to convince me and I
> don’t try to convince him.
>
> I often take issue with Ned’s posted positions because I believe
> List readers deserve the perspective of all available information when
> making their own personal choices. If Ned fronts a position which is
> not logically defended and/or not subsequently discussed by others
> having their own unique observations, opinions, options, and alternate
> methods new, less-experienced readers may assume his must be THE
> answer, i.e. a mutual utterance of the community. I believe that kind
> of information omission is regrettable, and I have a similar objection
> to so-called FAQ lists which may also floated without discussion or
> “peer review”.
>
> Ned shouldn’t feel like the Lone Ranger as a target of my alternate
> views: I’ve long provided input to many others from him up to – and
> specifically including – that grand, high, omnipotent, ultralite guru
> Ray Jardine, with whom I communicated repeatedly and at great length
> about many of his published, but unsound or doctrinaire, positions.
>
> I agree with Dennis Prager: "Prefer clarity to agreement."
>
> Steel-Eye
>
> Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:01 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
>
> It would seem that Chuck and I differ on the use of poles while
> crossing streams. We both agree, however, on some crucial points,
> - face the other side of the stream, and
> - have a pole in each hand.
>
> What remains is - what you do with your balance, and
> - what you do with your poles when you move.
>
> What we teach is based on our experience. Chuck's ideas, based on
> the Army's teachings, sound good and are worthy of trying out in a
> couple of days when we go back out on the trail.
> The premise is to be as careful with your balance as you can while
> moving across a swift current so you can get to the other side without
> falling. There are many ways of doing this as some are comfortable
> with one way while others are not. As always, hikers need to figure
> this out for themselves (go out to a stream a short distance from the
> car and with the assistance of a group of other hikers right now,
> during the thaw and high flow) before they find themselves testing out
> theories in a remote location along the PCT/JMT all by themselves.
>
>
> "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> 1106A Ski Run Blvd
> South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
> P: 888-996-8333
> F: 530-541-1456
> C: 530-721-1551
> http://www.mountaineducation.org
> ----- Original Message ----- From: CHUCK CHELIN To:
> Hikes and Bikes Cc: ned at mountaineducation.org ; PCT-L
> Backcountry Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 6:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Donahue 07/02/11
>
>
> Good evening, Hikes & Bikes,
>
> I understand what Ned means – I think – it’s just that I, and
> others, don’t believe what he describes is good practice. In fact,
> our views are diametrically opposed relative to stick usage.
> http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=265511
>
> Perhaps Ned can more fully explain what he means, on a solid
> technical basis. I would be interested.
>
> Steel-Eye
>
> Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Hikes and Bikes
> <hikingis4me2 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> "Solo crossings should always utilize both poles downstream of
> your body (which is facing the way your are going) for resistance
> against the current's force to push you that way."
>
> Ned I'm having trouble visualizing the above . If your body
> is facing where you want to go, then how are both poles downstream.
> Are they in the same hand or behind you?
> Thanks.
> --- On Tue, 7/5/11, ned at mountaineducation.org
> <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
>
>
> From: ned at mountaineducation.org <ned at mountaineducation.org>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Donahue 07/02/11
> To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com, "PCT MailingList"
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Cc: TheTahoeRimTrail at yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2011, 12:12 PM
>
>
>
> Snow doesn't mean "you can't get through." It just means at
> this time of year that you need to slow down and ever-mindful of your
> traction, balance, foot placement, and route (got to look up and
> around once in a while!).
>
> The pictures in Erin's Picasa album show above-8,000 foot
> conditions typical of right now all along the Sierra crest, and most
> of these were taken above timberline (down in the trees either you
> still have lots of snow or nothing, depending on elevation, aspect,
> and exposure). The suncups are getting bigger and more slippery, too!
>
> Again, plan your nights below snowline if you're not prepared
> for snow-camping and get over the passes before the afternoon
> post-holing starts!
>
> Her pictures of the creek-crossings are frightening! The group
> crossing showed everyone crossing independently of each other (not the
> best). When you're able to cross in a group, utilize one or two others
> to cross with you for support. Link arms-behind-backs and synchronize
> movements to help each other get across safely. Your feet will go numb
> because of the cold.
>
> Wear foot protection to prevent injury-reactions like
> stumbling and loss of balance should you stub your toe into a rock or
> step on something abrasive or sharp under water. Keep in mind that the
> whitewater may prevent you from visualizing where to place your feet
> while crossing, so expect to "hunt-and-seek" with your feet to find
> good places for each foot placement.
>
> Solo crossings should always utilize both poles downstream of
> your body (which is facing the way your are going) for resistance
> against the current's force to push you that way. Some people who
> don't use two hiking poles, find sturdy branches on the forest floor
> to help them in this way. Within seconds of immersion into a creek
> surrounded by snow, your feet will feel extremely cold and then go
> numb. Just get across safely. Although you don't want to take your
> time focusing on balance and secure footing because of this, do it.
> The consequences of a hasty crossing could be total immersion after a
> fall, the loss of all your have, and the sudden realization that you
> could loose your life and drown as the current (although only two or
> three feet deep) pushes you around and under a log or branch
> downstream. Plan for shorter days if you see on the map long-canyon
> creek crossings on any given day to allow for the searching of dry and
> safe crossings.
>
> This is not a normal summer out there, folks! Those of us who
> are out on the trail bringing back trail condition reports don't have
> to dramatize what we see to make our points, the creeks are nasty
> below snowline, the trail may have drifts across it to the depths of
> one to 6 feet between 7,500 and 8,000, the creek crossings in this
> altitude band may still have snow bridges (got to search them out if
> in the trees), and the snow should be solid above 8,000 depending on
> aspect, trees, wind, and exposure. www.mountaineducation.org has a
> series of pictures showing the PCT/TRT right now at these elevations
> and aspects. Go forewarned and prepared. Slow down and expect delays,
> localized struggles over obstacles like creeks, suncups, and
> blow-down, and increased appetite if you're out for more than a week.
>
>
>
> "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> 1106A Ski Run Blvd
> South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
> P: 888-996-8333
> F: 530-541-1456
> C: 530-721-1551
> http://www.mountaineducation.org
>
>
>
>
>
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