[pct-l] Fw: Re: Dogs in National Parks/horses/mules/llamas

Fri Dec 16 08:44:56 CST 2011

When I did my JMT hike with my wife a few years back I contacted a pack outfit to see how much it would cost me to have a food drop taken to the bear boxes at the Rae Lake Ranger station.    The outfit told me that I could not add my dunnage to an existing already scheduled pack trip and when I added up the cost of a lead horse, lead rider and mule for the two day in and out trip it came out to over $300.  The outfit told me that they didn't have a problem with me contacting the people with planned trips and working something out with them directly but they wouldn't contact customers on my behalf or give me their names. 

I don't mind commercial pack trips into the area's that I hike but you would think that these commercial pack outfits might be more accommodating to the average hiker who might want to piggyback a small food drop (for a reasonable fee) into an area that they are already going to.   I know the pack outfits are there to make a profit and I am okay with that but I think us two hoofed hikers might have a little more appreciation of there presence or should I say presents on the trail if they would show a more friendly hiker attitude. 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Charles Williams
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 3:11 PM
To: PCT list
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fw: Re: Dogs in National Parks/horses/mules/llamas

No, they have been this lean for the last 3 or 4 years.  The trails and campgrounds not being open as early of course cut into their 1, 2, and 1/2 day ride business, but the packing part tanked during the beginning of the recession.

Charles

--- On Thu, 12/15/11, tom aterno <nitnoid1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: tom aterno <nitnoid1 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fw: Re: Dogs in National Parks/horses/mules/llamas
To: "Charles Williams" <charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, December 15, 2011, 2:35 PM

Could the high snow year last year have any bearing on their lean year?

The Incredible Bulk

From: Charles Williams <charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
To: PCT list <Pct-L at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 4:54 PM
Subject: [pct-l] Fw: Re: Dogs in National Parks/horses/mules/llamas

--- On Thu, 12/15/11, Charles Williams <charlesnolie at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Charles Williams <charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs in National Parks/horses/mules/llamas
To: "Brick Robbins" <brick at brickrobbins.com>
Date: Thursday, December 15, 2011, 1:54 PM

Most horsemen (and women) do not have the resources to keep a string of mules at the ready in case they want to take a vacation by horseback.  That means if horsemen are to exercise their right to travel by horseback for a few days or a week, they have to rely on pack stations to do it.  Yes, the area around a pack station gets concentrated use.  This is hard on the trails and we know it.  That's one of the reasons I volunteer for the pcta in an effort to help them keep up with the maintenance that needs to be done.  I am not the only horseman doing this.  

I know everybody thinks pack stations are the "evil empire".  I can't speak for how any of them are doing, but one.  The pack station in my neck of the woods used to have 8 or 10 paying pack trips a year.  Last year they packed in a trail crew and re supplied them a few days later and that was it.  When times are lean, people just don't take the pack trips they used to.  And remember, the packer has to pay for pasture for their horses and mules all winter in the hopes of having a bang up summer.  Ask anyone who works in a seasonal business, from rangers to VVR, they'll tell you life can be difficult in recessions.  

I know that was a little off topic, but I have taken day rides and packtrips with packers and stables in my area and having services available to people like me means that trails around them can be in rough shape.  But it provides an alternative mode of transportation that is highly desireable to some people.  And just so you know, that pack station that didn't have any paying customers last year, they donated use of two of their best mules for me and my friend to pack saws and clear trail on the PCT in the forested areas of Lassen N.F. 

Charles Williams

--- On Thu, 12/15/11, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs in National Parks/horses/mules/llamas
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Date: Thursday, December 15, 2011, 12:47 PM

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Charles Williams
<charlesnolie at yahoo.com> wrote:
> And this too, I'd just asoon that horses did less damage to the trail too.  Some people think that horsemen, by virtue of the fact that they ride and lead horses and mules, care less about our wildlands than hikers do.<

IMHO, the amount of damage done by individual horsemen is negligible.

HOWEVER I have a beef with the damage done by the pack trains run by
the commercial pack outfits. I object to over use of public lands,
especially wilderness areas, by commercial concerns.

There is nothing wrong with stock on the trails. There IS something
wrong with overuse of the trails by commercial enterprises using
stock.

YMMV
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