[pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 48, Issue 8

Thu Dec 8 15:44:15 CST 2011

On that note, I'm currently planning, weather reasonable cooperative, to
start S to N toward mid to late March. I'll be carrying a pair of short MSR
Lightening Assents as both snowshoes and crampons. I've always thought of
Lightening as very wide crampons. 

Anyway, what closure problems to you all foresee? I'm going to Kennedy
Meadows or so then bail off and go home. Once the snow conditions improve
I'm going to get back on at Manning and hike to where I got off. Should be
great weather all the way.

Jerry

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/: the most comprehensive interactive gear
reviews on the planet.
<http://www.backpackgeartest.org/:%20the%20most%20comprehensive%20interactiv
e%20gear%20reviews%20on%20the%20planet.> 

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Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 48, Issue 8

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Today's Topics:

   1. Fucking take me off (Jauquin QuixZorro)
   2. Early start, early finish (Robert Shuman)
   3. Re: Canada Permit (Sam Griffin)
   4. Re: Early start, early finish (Jackie McDonnell)
   5. Re: Lightweight Packs (Sam Griffin)
   6. Re: Pacific Crest Trail Guidebooks for Sale (Meridith Rosendahl)
   7. Re: Lightweight Packs (Charles Williams)
   8. Hiking with dog (mark utzman)
   9. Re: Hiking with dog (Hank Magnuski)
  10. Re: Hiking with dog (Jackie McDonnell)
  11. Re: Hiking with dog (Diarmaid Harmon)
  12. Re: Early start, early finish (Brick Robbins)
  13. Three Mailing List Tips including "How to Unsubscribe from
      PCT-L" (Gary Wright)
  14. Re: Three Mailing List Tips including "How to Unsubscribe
      from PCT-L" (Gary Wright)
  15. Three Mailing List Tips including "How to Unsubscribe from
      PCT-L" (Mark Liechty)
  16. Re: Lightweight Packs (Scott Williams)
  17. Re: Early start, early finish (Sir Mixalot)
  18.  Hiking with dog (Deems)
  19. hiking with dog (Josie)
  20. Snow course in Sisters, OR-by  <http://www.mountaineducation.org>
www.mountaineducation.org
      ( <mailto:dougearly at aol.com> dougearly at aol.com)
  21. Re: Good campgrounds along the PCT?
      (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 10:16:52 -0800
From: Jauquin QuixZorro < <mailto:holsterboy at yahoo.com>
holsterboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Fucking take me off
To: " <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net" <
<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: < <mailto:7BF14883-BF2B-408A-ABEE-52D4001DF61F at yahoo.com>
7BF14883-BF2B-408A-ABEE-52D4001DF61F at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

I have been playing nice

Sent from my iPhone

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 16:56:18 -0700
From: Robert Shuman < <mailto:robertbeanie at hotmail.com>
robertbeanie at hotmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Early start, early finish
To: < <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: < <mailto:SNT140-W613F302539DA6AB1BCCB16D7BA0 at phx.gbl>
SNT140-W613F302539DA6AB1BCCB16D7BA0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I am going to hike the PCT this coming spring. I was thinking about leaving
significantly earlier then the normal crowd. Most likely around March 1st. I
was looking for some feedback on this idea. Is the snow going to be to
difficult to cross? Or the avalanche danger to high? I am planning on
bringing snow shoes for almost the entire trip at this point. Has anyone
ever started this or early or know anyone that has, I would love to get in
touch with them. The reason I want to leave so early is simply because I
want to be back before August. However, if the trip is going to be miserable
then it is not worth it and I would consider leaving at a later date.
-Robert Shuman                                                        

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 10:31:20 -0800
From: Sam Griffin < <mailto:samgriffin4 at gmail.com> samgriffin4 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Canada Permit
To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CA+K-w5RB9v5nfAuYAN+kwS9f0bFkaEXQU_RDMF6DoMV1zjLh4w at mail.gmail.com>
CA+K-w5RB9v5nfAuYAN+kwS9f0bFkaEXQU_RDMF6DoMV1zjLh4w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I actually completely spaced on my Canada permit and didn't end up applying
for it until Bend, Oregon. Being past the deadline was definitely not a big
deal, just call the guy and talk to him, in the event that this happen to
you. Also, while in Canada, I was never asked for my permit, though some
people were (generally people who walked back across the border were asked,
those who drove were not). It's definitely a must have though.

A large group of guys a day ahead of me all hiked back to Hart's Pass
because they either had records (i.e. weren't allowed in) or never applied
for their form.

Rattler

> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 15:24:06 -0800
> From: mark utzman < <mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Canada Permit
> To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>        
> <CAJ9hrMUwcEdcT184jf5DLABoFstQ9gbJU8i_cmsz1UGED3zxeg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> What permit do I need to hike into Canada? How do I go about getting it? I
> have a passport, is that good enough? Thanks.   Mark
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 15:28:12 -0800
> From: < <mailto:chiefcowboy at verizon.net> chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Canada Permit
> To: "mark utzman" < <mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
blackbelthiker at gmail.com>,   < <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>
pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <570D32548EB942EB8A8CB23C69151D35 at RonPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
>        reply-type=original
> 
> You'll need to go to the PCTA website and you can download it from there.
> If you haven't read through the PCTA information you have a long way 
> to go to get ready.  I also suggest Yogi's books because ALL of your 
> answers will be found there.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark utzman
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:24 PM
> To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Canada Permit
> 
> What permit do I need to hike into Canada? How do I go about getting it? I
> have a passport, is that good enough? Thanks.   Mark
> _______________________________________________
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>  <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:34:34 -0600
From: Jackie McDonnell < <mailto:yogihikes at gmail.com> yogihikes at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early start, early finish
To: Robert Shuman < <mailto:robertbeanie at hotmail.com>
robertbeanie at hotmail.com>
Cc:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CACK6q3Gv1djJ__6D2NGHTw3HNfvt3GHZtXCX=Sff1+b+mWzTyA at mail.gmail.com>
CACK6q3Gv1djJ__6D2NGHTw3HNfvt3GHZtXCX=Sff1+b+mWzTyA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello Robert -

Without knowing your experience, I'll assume you're an average hiker like
the rest of us.  Most PCT hikers don't have prior experience hiking for
weeks on end in winter snow conditions.  Perhaps you do, and if that is the
case, please disregard my assumption.

That said, I think it's important for you (and others who no doubt have the
same sort of questions) to understand that the PCT in SoCal is not all
desert.  The PCT reaches the Laguna Mountains by mile 40, and you'll be at
9000 feet on the side of Mt. San Jacinto by mile 180.  The PCT goes up/down
many mountain ridges all the way to Kennedy Meadows.

Starting the PCT in early March is not advisable for average hikers (like
me!).  The concern should not be "is it difficult".  Rather, the concern
should be "is it dangerous".  My opinion is that YES, it's dangerous.  It's
better to wait until late April or early May.  It isn't advisable to hike
north from Kennedy Meadows before early June anyway, so starting in March
won't really get you anywhere.

I'd recommend a 2-year hike.  Start in late April or early May.  Hike
through July.  Then come back next year!!!

Yogi
 <http://www.pcthandbook.com> www.pcthandbook.com

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Robert Shuman <
<mailto:robertbeanie at hotmail.com> robertbeanie at hotmail.com>wrote:

> 
> I am going to hike the PCT this coming spring. I was thinking about 
> leaving significantly earlier then the normal crowd. Most likely 
> around March 1st. I was looking for some feedback on this idea. Is the 
> snow going to be to difficult to cross? Or the avalanche danger to 
> high? I am planning on bringing snow shoes for almost the entire trip 
> at this point. Has anyone ever started this or early or know anyone 
> that has, I would love to get in touch with them. The reason I want to 
> leave so early is simply because I want to be back before August. 
> However, if the trip is going to be miserable then it is not worth it 
> and I would consider leaving at a later date.
> -Robert Shuman
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
>  <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>  <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
> 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 10:35:32 -0800
From: Sam Griffin < <mailto:samgriffin4 at gmail.com> samgriffin4 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lightweight Packs
To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Cc:  <mailto:janetgr at Cableone.net> janetgr at Cableone.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CA+K-w5RY9iCV3c1Jfc-F6yMujRpi0DbFjiDFdtKJXGLO9-p2vA at mail.gmail.com>
CA+K-w5RY9iCV3c1Jfc-F6yMujRpi0DbFjiDFdtKJXGLO9-p2vA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Definitely check out the ULA Catalyst. After getting rid of my Osprey Atmos
50 because of several zipper explosions, I used this and loved it. I saw so
many ULA packs on the trail that some of my photographs look like
advertisements; people use them for a reason (b/c they're awesome!). I will
say that the pack rub was bad at some points, this varies hiker to hiker.
You'll see!

Rattler

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 10:36:14 -0800
From: Meridith Rosendahl < <mailto:meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com>
meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pacific Crest Trail Guidebooks for Sale
To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Cc: Diane Soini < <mailto:diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CAEJJFnoAYB0dr_Bd2SWpmbVTRUDSfwTBgtfVDdiN=wwM1yN9NQ at mail.gmail.com>
CAEJJFnoAYB0dr_Bd2SWpmbVTRUDSfwTBgtfVDdiN=wwM1yN9NQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Baby Hazel is adorable.  She reminds me so much of my baby girl on her first
camping trip.  Who knows, Hazel may grow up to be another Piper, er, Diane,
who can't get enough of the PCT.

Piper's Mom

  By the way, here's a link to an article on Discovery on our family's PCT
trek this summer.  We miss it so badly!
 <http://news.discovery.com/adventure/on-the-trail-with-bab>
http://news.discovery.com/adventure/on-the-trail-with-bab
y-111121.htm

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 11:29:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Charles Williams < <mailto:charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lightweight Packs
To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net, Sam Griffin <
<mailto:samgriffin4 at gmail.com> samgriffin4 at gmail.com>
Cc:  <mailto:janetgr at Cableone.net> janetgr at Cableone.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:1323286149.12515.YahooMailClassic at web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
1323286149.12515.YahooMailClassic at web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I've done a few hundred miles in a ULA and had a good experience.? Two
concerns, however.? First, the foam used in the back was not anti-bacterial
foam and stunk badly after a short while on the trail.? Second, the back of
the pack was constantly pulling on the hairs of my back.? Yes, I have the
dreaded "hairy-back disease".? I was wearing a synthetic shirt, but still it
was uncomfortable.? Don't know if anyone else has experienced this, or not.?
Also, should note that it was a long time ago that I had these experiences:
2003.? They may have changed materials since then.
?
Charles

--- On Wed, 12/7/11, Sam Griffin < <mailto:samgriffin4 at gmail.com>
samgriffin4 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sam Griffin < <mailto:samgriffin4 at gmail.com> samgriffin4 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lightweight Packs
To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Cc:  <mailto:janetgr at Cableone.net> janetgr at Cableone.net
Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:35 AM

Definitely check out the ULA Catalyst. After getting rid of my Osprey Atmos
50 because of several zipper explosions, I used this and loved it. I saw so
many ULA packs on the trail that some of my photographs look like
advertisements; people use them for a reason (b/c they're awesome!). I will
say that the pack rub was bad at some points, this varies hiker to hiker.
You'll see!

Rattler
_______________________________________________
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 11:46:23 -0800
From: mark utzman < <mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking with dog
To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CAJ9hrMUhQO3Y=3_8dS7wXYioM28==FsqfWSpxFYZeYESYfg9aw at mail.gmail.com>
CAJ9hrMUhQO3Y=3_8dS7wXYioM28==FsqfWSpxFYZeYESYfg9aw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I am doing a thru hike in 2012. Has anyone done a thru hike with their dog?
I have a Jack Russel that is 6 years old and I dont have a place to leave
him when I do this hike, and I don't want to give him away. So I am
considering taking him with me. I know that National Parks don't allow dogs
in the backcountry, besides the sheer magnitude of such a hike may be too
much ( distance, stream crossings, hot, cold, ect.) I dont know. Does anyone
have advice or suggestions? I looked into kennels but that would cost a
small fortune. Any help would greatly be appreciated. I love this
dog and I really want to do this hike. Thanks,   Mark

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 11:50:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Hank Magnuski < <mailto:hankm at mtinet.com> hankm at mtinet.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hiking with dog
To: mark utzman < <mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
Cc:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: < <mailto:alpine.LRH.2.02.1112071148140.27718 at sv-04.mtinet.com>
alpine.LRH.2.02.1112071148140.27718 at sv-04.mtinet.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Hi Mark,

This topic comes up every year on this forum and there are now approximately
6,000,000 messages on the subject. Please have a look at the archives.

I think the consensus is that it's really, really hard on the dog.

Hank

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011, mark utzman wrote:

> I am doing a thru hike in 2012. Has anyone done a thru hike with their
dog?
> I have a Jack Russel that is 6 years old and I dont have a place to 
> leave him when I do this hike, and I don't want to give him away. So I 
> am considering taking him with me. I know that National Parks don't 
> allow dogs in the backcountry, besides the sheer magnitude of such a 
> hike may be too much ( distance, stream crossings, hot, cold, ect.) I 
> dont know. Does anyone have advice or suggestions? I looked into 
> kennels but that would cost a small fortune. Any help would greatly be
appreciated. I love this
> dog and I really want to do this hike. Thanks,   Mark

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:55:35 -0600
From: Jackie McDonnell < <mailto:yogihikes at gmail.com> yogihikes at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hiking with dog
To: mark utzman < <mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
Cc:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CACK6q3F4Q9w7oLAszj-oTbnATjJE+Fm4G8KkQ5h8VY+S2RGasQ at mail.gmail.com>
CACK6q3F4Q9w7oLAszj-oTbnATjJE+Fm4G8KkQ5h8VY+S2RGasQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello Mark -

A 2700-mile hike is no place for a dog.  You love your dog.  The right thing
to do is to put the dog's health first:  Find a good home for your dog for 5
months.  Do not take it on the trail.

Yogi
 <http://www.pcthandbook.com> www.pcthandbook.com

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 1:46 PM, mark utzman <
<mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com> blackbelthiker at gmail.com>wrote:

> I am doing a thru hike in 2012. Has anyone done a thru hike with their
dog?
> I have a Jack Russel that is 6 years old and I dont have a place to 
> leave him when I do this hike, and I don't want to give him away. So I 
> am considering taking him with me. I know that National Parks don't 
> allow dogs in the backcountry, besides the sheer magnitude of such a 
> hike may be too much ( distance, stream crossings, hot, cold, ect.) I 
> dont know. Does anyone have advice or suggestions? I looked into 
> kennels but that would cost a small fortune. Any help would greatly be
appreciated. I love this
> dog and I really want to do this hike. Thanks,   Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
>  <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>  <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
> 

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 11:59:15 -0800
From: Diarmaid Harmon < <mailto:irishharmon at comcast.net>
irishharmon at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hiking with dog
To: mark utzman < <mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
Cc: " <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net" <
<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: < <mailto:04825D40-F7FA-4D63-841E-A012A2119F25 at comcast.net>
04825D40-F7FA-4D63-841E-A012A2119F25 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

I did the PCT in 2002 with my dog. I had a min schnauzer and on the river
crossings I used the handle on his pack and either carried him or hooked him
to my sternum strap. I found it easier to deal with a small dog when things
were wet. My only caution would be does your dog hike now? My dog had
several thousand miles before I did the PCT. Boots for the paws are also
important as the sand in most of the cascades is volcanic. 

Hiking Irish. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 7, 2011, at 11:46 AM, mark utzman < <mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
blackbelthiker at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am doing a thru hike in 2012. Has anyone done a thru hike with their
dog?
> I have a Jack Russel that is 6 years old and I dont have a place to 
> leave him when I do this hike, and I don't want to give him away. So I 
> am considering taking him with me. I know that National Parks don't 
> allow dogs in the backcountry, besides the sheer magnitude of such a 
> hike may be too much ( distance, stream crossings, hot, cold, ect.) I 
> dont know. Does anyone have advice or suggestions? I looked into 
> kennels but that would cost a small fortune. Any help would greatly be
appreciated. I love this
> dog and I really want to do this hike. Thanks,   Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
>  <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>  <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
>  <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:19:41 -0800
From: Brick Robbins < <mailto:brick at brickrobbins.com>
brick at brickrobbins.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early start, early finish
To: Robert Shuman < <mailto:robertbeanie at hotmail.com>
robertbeanie at hotmail.com>
Cc:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CALV1Nzn1CfY7qppsVgH=mBfPysgUhCE2LJjpCTVwdX+oqxV1Mg at mail.gmail.com>
CALV1Nzn1CfY7qppsVgH=mBfPysgUhCE2LJjpCTVwdX+oqxV1Mg at mail.gmail.com>
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On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Robert Shuman <
<mailto:robertbeanie at hotmail.com> robertbeanie at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am going to hike the PCT this coming spring. I was thinking about 
> leaving significantly earlier then the normal crowd. Most likely 
> around March 1st. I was looking for some feedback on this idea<<

A couple of things.

You won't have any snow on the ground Campo -> Hwy 79 (Anza) then no snow
Agua Dulce -> Tehachapi, but you might have some pretty foul weather.

The area around Idylwild covers some pretty dramatic terrain that is
dangerous to cross without winter mountaineering skills. There are a couple
of chutes in the section where the trail has been blasted out of the sheer
rock that might have avalanche dangers. Boots, crampons and an ice axe might
be good for this section too, depending on how much coverage there is (which
you won't know till you get there)

Big Bear/Wrightwood is more doable with snow, and the areas where the trail
goes is more likely to have less snow, but the areas that are covered will
be VERY slow going. Not much avalanche danger in this section. Bring a GPS.

As far as doing the Sierra at the date you are likely to arrive, I would
expect a very slow trip, requiring some pretty stout winter mountaineering
skills. Touring skis would be a better bet than Snow Shoes for this section.

You probably won't have much avalanche danger that late in the season, but
there are sometimes late seasons snows, and when you have a fresh layer on
top of the consolidated base, the avalanche danger is really high.

Me? I'd wait till April or May.

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 16:28:18 -0500
From: Gary Wright < <mailto:gwtmp01 at mac.com> gwtmp01 at mac.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Three Mailing List Tips including "How to Unsubscribe
            from    PCT-L"
To: PCT Listserve < <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: < <mailto:DBF02CAE-8B28-449D-92F3-A57B2EEF0526 at mac.com>
DBF02CAE-8B28-449D-92F3-A57B2EEF0526 at mac.com>
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Tip 1: Instructions for unsubscribing or otherwise managing your PCT-L
subscription is automatically included at the bottom of *every* message send
to the list, including this one.

Go to the URL shown below where it says "To unsubscribe...". On that page,
scroll down to the "PCT-L Subscribers" section and enter your email address
where it says: "To unsubscribe from the PCT-L..."

Tip 2:  Whenever I subscribe to a mailing list I save the 'welcome'
message I get from the list in a folder.  If I ever need to remind myself
about the list policies, administrative procedures, charter, and so on I can
find that welcome message to get me started.

Tip 3: I can't think of a single mailing list that I've used in the last 20
years that handled administrative tasks by sending email to the list itself.
There is always a web page or an alternative email address to use for
administrative issues.

Radar

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:02:13 -0500
From: Gary Wright < <mailto:gwtmp01 at mac.com> gwtmp01 at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Three Mailing List Tips including "How to
            Unsubscribe from PCT-L"
To: Arlo Barnes < <mailto:arlo.barnes at gmail.com> arlo.barnes at gmail.com>
Cc: PCT Listserve < <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: < <mailto:3696EFEB-E0B6-4DFB-AAEF-22248DA7E33C at mac.com>
3696EFEB-E0B6-4DFB-AAEF-22248DA7E33C at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=iso-8859-1

On Dec 7, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Arlo Barnes wrote:

>  I can't think of a single mailing list that I've used in the last 20 
> years that handled administrative tasks by sending email to the list 
> itself.
> With the occasional exception of sending an email to
unsubscribeATrandomexamplemailinglistDOTcom or some such. But definitely not
asking to be removed on the main list itself, especially rudely.

Right.  That is an example of a special email address for unsubscribe
requests--one that is distinctly different than the address used to post
messages to the list.

PCT-L doesn't work that way though, as it has the web page interface for
unsubscribing.

Radar

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 14:13:38 -0800
From: Mark Liechty < <mailto:mlaccs at mlaccs.com> mlaccs at mlaccs.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Three Mailing List Tips including "How to Unsubscribe
            from    PCT-L"
To: Gary Wright < <mailto:gwtmp01 at mac.com> gwtmp01 at mac.com>
Cc: PCT Listserve < <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: < <mailto:1D414574-3DD6-47FB-BA0C-13A4C5F446B1 at mlaccs.com>
1D414574-3DD6-47FB-BA0C-13A4C5F446B1 at mlaccs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> On Dec 7, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Arlo Barnes wrote:
>  But definitely not asking to be removed on the main list itself,
especially rudely.
#############

I am an IT geek by trade.  On most of my lists if someone asks to be removed
in a rude manner what they are really saying is "Please add me to as many
junk, spam, and porn lists as you can find"

There are time when the unsubscribe stuff does not work smooth but it is
almost certain that yelling will not get the desired results.   People
really do want to help if you give them a chance.

Mark "blankie" Liechty
(who does not actually try to make anyone's life harder than needed)

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 15:37:26 -0800
From: Scott Williams < <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com> baidarker at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lightweight Packs
To: Charles Williams < <mailto:charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
Cc:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net,
<mailto:janetgr at cableone.net> janetgr at cableone.net,      Sam Griffin
            < <mailto:samgriffin4 at gmail.com> samgriffin4 at gmail.com>
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CAGxcj11=VaXMnwKBnngdB8nvXozMe-o96R-PDsmMBBHw9Kwy=Q at mail.gmail.com>
CAGxcj11=VaXMnwKBnngdB8nvXozMe-o96R-PDsmMBBHw9Kwy=Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I started with an Osprey Exos, which I loved, but it was falling apart after
500 miles of desert.  REI took it back no problem as it was clearly failing
at numerous points.  Then I went to the Osprey Atmos which held up alright,
but made me hike a bit stooped over.  The airspace at the back is very
cooling and comfortable, but it pushes your center of gravity a bit
backward, forcing you to stoop forward to compensate.  Not comfortable.
Then just out of Ashland I tried on Plain Slices new ULA Circuit.  I
suddenly stood straight up.  I was sold and as we had a bit of cel reception
I called ULA, gave them my measurements over the phone and had one shipped
to Crater Lake.  I never looked back.  I used it again this year when
rehiking WA, and the only problem is one hip belt pocket zipper has blown,
but I'm sure it can be replaced.

In 2010, Smiles had the Catalyst and loved having the bit of extra room,
Little Engine had the CDT, smaller than either of the others, and loved
that.  I've bought a CDT and used it for short excursions and found it very
comfortable and will try to pare things down enough to use it on the CDT
next year.  I agree with the above.  ULA's were the most common pack in
2010, and for good reason.

Shroomer

------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 16:41:50 -0800
From: Sir Mixalot < <mailto:atetuna at gmail.com> atetuna at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early start, early finish
To: Robert Shuman < <mailto:robertbeanie at hotmail.com>
robertbeanie at hotmail.com>
Cc:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:CAKhNvBUyrF46v9MKanLOq8DeWL+JMkZc3mZpSpw7E0hU-8a9fg at mail.gmail.com>
CAKhNvBUyrF46v9MKanLOq8DeWL+JMkZc3mZpSpw7E0hU-8a9fg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Another big downside to reaching the Sierras early is that you'll find few
places open.  VVR will probably still be closed.  A couple more days will
get you to Reds Meadow/Agnew, but that place will be closed too.   That's
just two examples.  You'll have to carry much more food, or spend more days
hiking out over passes and back.

That said, it might be an extremely low snow year or the snow might melt
early and quickly, which could make an early start less difficult to do.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Robert Shuman <
<mailto:robertbeanie at hotmail.com> robertbeanie at hotmail.com>wrote:

> 
> I am going to hike the PCT this coming spring. I was thinking about 
> leaving significantly earlier then the normal crowd. Most likely 
> around March 1st. I was looking for some feedback on this idea. Is the 
> snow going to be to difficult to cross? Or the avalanche danger to 
> high? I am planning on bringing snow shoes for almost the entire trip 
> at this point. Has anyone ever started this or early or know anyone 
> that has, I would love to get in touch with them. The reason I want to 
> leave so early is simply because I want to be back before August. 
> However, if the trip is going to be miserable then it is not worth it 
> and I would consider leaving at a later date.
> -Robert Shuman
> _______________________________________________
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
> 

------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 18:13:24 -0800
From: "Deems" < <mailto:losthiker at sisqtel.net> losthiker at sisqtel.net>
Subject: [pct-l]  Hiking with dog
To: "pct" < <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <AB5114FD128A4F9DA02B81BE71D9F12C at S0029439031>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
            reply-type=original

I too have a 6yr old Jack Russell terrier that has 1000 PCT miles to her
credit. I hike at her comfort level, and we have done some very incredible
trips together.  Most of our PCT trips have been two week plus sections, but
taking on the whole PCT would be beyond our comfort level.  Minus all the
legal Nat Park issues, etc.  I've found that after 2-3 weeks, she is tired,
and I'm getting stronger. At that point, you will be able to hike beyond
your dog's abilities. I and Kelly can hike 15miles a day comfortably, but 
that's our limit.   My dog loses her appetite after days of long hiking, she

wants to sleep, so it is a challenge to keep her fed well.   I now feed her 
very expensive dog food to keep her in shape, and her appetite up. I love to
hike with my dog, and I always put her first. Each trek is designed to her 
abilities.   I have backed out of trips because of my dog's health or 
issues, and I've hiked with 3 trail dogs since 1981.  The hardest trip to
abort was a 2 week trip deep into the Sierra in 2003.  When I arrived at the
trailhead my dog Pika had an abcessed tooth, and very swollen face. I looked
at her, and then hard at the Sierra that I had dreamed about for a year.  We
then drove 500 miles back home and right to the vet.  We then hiked into the
Trinity Alps later that week, with the vet's approval, and returned to the
Sierra in 2004 for the 2003 trek.  Your dog comes first. Be ready to abort
your trip, anywhere, anytime, for him.  I won't get into the heat issues, if
it's in the 90s, your dog may not be able to hike, he will seek shade. Kelly
and I will hike the PCT from Sierra City to Old Station in 2012.  Feel free
to contact me off line.
 <http://www.pbase.com/losthiker/kelly&page=all>
http://www.pbase.com/losthiker/kelly&page=all
 <http://postholer.com/faq.php#dogs> http://postholer.com/faq.php#dogs  FAQ
~~~^^^~~
I am doing a thru hike in 2012. Has anyone done a thru hike with their dog?
I have a Jack Russel that is 6 years old and I dont have a place to leave
him when I do this hike, and I don't want to give him away. So I am
considering taking him with me. I know that National Parks don't allow dogs
in the backcountry, besides the sheer magnitude of such a hike may be too
much ( distance, stream crossings, hot, cold, ect.) I dont know. Does anyone
have advice or suggestions? I looked into kennels but that would cost a
small fortune. Any help would greatly be appreciated. I love this
dog and I really want to do this hike. Thanks,   Mark 

------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 21:51:36 -0800
From: Josie < <mailto:josie1066 at gmail.com> josie1066 at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] hiking with dog
To:  <mailto:blackbelthiker at gmail.com> blackbelthiker at gmail.com, Deems <
<mailto:losthiker at sisqtel.net> losthiker at sisqtel.net>,
             <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: < <mailto:45CB0712-E3FF-4B26-AC96-482CAEA2AAA9 at comcast.net>
45CB0712-E3FF-4B26-AC96-482CAEA2AAA9 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

Mark, I have an 8 year-old giant border collie who has traveled 2/3 of the
PCT and 1/3 of the CDT with me and my husband. I agree with everything that
Deems said about traveling with a dog, however each dog's capabilities are
individual, just as with humans--as Deems says, it is important to put your
dog's needs first because they need to be cared for like a child. My dog,
Mr. Cody, has been hiking since he was a puppy and each year he just seems
to get better at it--he has fewer problems and this year he made huge
contributions to our two (longer) hikes-- 360 miles on the CDT through heavy
snow, wild rivers and a grizzly bear with cubs; then a 60 mile section on
the Sierra High Route--he was amazing. If you really want to try it I
recommend that you go on some shorter hikes and see how your dog does. You
can read more about Mr. C's adventures in my journals at postholer.com/jo or
contact me off line. I have not found the PCT-l to be dog friendly, which I
find rather sad.--jo

I too have a 6yr old Jack Russell terrier that has 1000 PCT miles to her
credit. I hike at her comfort level, and we have done some very incredible
trips together.  Most of our PCT trips have been two week plus sections, but
taking on the whole PCT would be beyond our comfort level.  Minus all the
legal Nat Park issues, etc.  I've found that after 2-3 weeks, she is tired,
and I'm getting stronger. At that point, you will be able to hike beyond
your dog's abilities. I and Kelly can hike 15miles a day comfortably, but 
that's our limit.   My dog loses her appetite after days of long hiking, she

wants to sleep, so it is a challenge to keep her fed well.   I now feed her 
very expensive dog food to keep her in shape, and her appetite up. I love to
hike with my dog, and I always put her first. Each trek is designed to her 
abilities.   I have backed out of trips because of my dog's health or 
issues, and I've hiked with 3 trail dogs since 1981.  The hardest trip to
abort was a 2 week trip deep into the Sierra in 2003.  When I arrived at the
trailhead my dog Pika had an abcessed tooth, and very swollen face. I looked
at her, and then hard at the Sierra that I had dreamed about for a year.  We
then drove 500 miles back home and right to the vet.  We then hiked into the
Trinity Alps later that week, with the vet's approval, and returned to the
Sierra in 2004 for the 2003 trek.  Your dog comes first. Be ready to abort
your trip, anywhere, anytime, for him.  I won't get into the heat issues, if
it's in the 90s, your dog may not be able to hike, he will seek shade. Kelly
and I will hike the PCT from Sierra City to Old Station in 2012.  Feel free
to contact me off line.
 <http://www.pbase.com/losthiker/kelly&page=all>
http://www.pbase.com/losthiker/kelly&page=all
 <http://postholer.com/faq.php#dogs> http://postholer.com/faq.php#dogs  FAQ
~~~^^^~~
I am doing a thru hike in 2012. Has anyone done a thru hike with their dog?
I have a Jack Russel that is 6 years old and I dont have a place to leave
him when I do this hike, and I don't want to give him away. So I am
considering taking him with me. I know that National Parks don't allow dogs
in the backcountry, besides the sheer magnitude of such a hike may be too
much ( distance, stream crossings, hot, cold, ect.) I dont know. Does anyone
have advice or suggestions? I looked into kennels but that would cost a
small fortune. Any help would greatly be appreciated. I love this
dog and I really want to do this hike. Thanks,   Mark 

------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 01:23:26 -0500 (EST)
From:  <mailto:dougearly at aol.com> dougearly at aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] Snow course in Sisters, OR-by
             <http://www.mountaineducation.org> www.mountaineducation.org
To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: < <mailto:8CE838907681AB5-61C-36B8A at webmail-m129.sysops.aol.com>
8CE838907681AB5-61C-36B8A at webmail-m129.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello again-

I have heard from a few people in the Pacific Northwest about attending the
snow course in Sisters, OR, but want to open it up to see if there is
interest in possibly doing a Snow Intermediate Course in Sisters, OR? Please
check out  <http://www.mountaineducation,org> www.mountaineducation,org for
information between a SIB and SIC.Any further questions, give me a call-
541-419-2986 Doug  Course would be February 23 or 24th thru Feb 26th. 

Cheers- Doug

------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 06:23:53 -0800
From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <
<mailto:diane at santabarbarahikes.com> diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Good campgrounds along the PCT?
To:  <mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net> pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
            <
<mailto:F8A320D2-02D7-4211-9168-A44F27F5E75F at santabarbarahikes.com>
F8A320D2-02D7-4211-9168-A44F27F5E75F at santabarbarahikes.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

There was a US Forest Service campground next to Shelter Cove resort, too.
$16 bucks a night. Elk Lake Resort also had camping and was really easy off
the trail. I think there were campgrounds along the road to Bend as well if
you didn't want to stay at the resort.

Another option for those more adventurous (or cheap) is that you can
dispersal camp in national forests or BLM land. Just park and camp in your
RV or pitch a tent in the forest. This works well for those lonely forest
roads if you can figure out how to get to them and where there won't be
anybody driving by to bother you.

On Dec 7, 2011, at 10:00 AM,  <mailto:pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> 
> Oregon:
> 
> Virtually any of the resorts or PCT road crossing have trailhead 
> camping, but reservations will be required for virtually every CG as 
> they are wildly popular. Easiest resupplying along the PCT.
> 
> Mazama CG just inside Crater Lake NP ... IF you can get reservations 
> Diamond Lake CG, or there's camping at hwy 138 near the PCT crossing 
> Lava Camp Lake CG (*) just east of McKenzie Pass (OR 242) Ollallie 
> Lake CG (*) - the resort does not accept packages any more

------------------------------

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End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 48, Issue 8
************************************