[pct-l] creek crossing advice/info

Wed Apr 27 13:40:36 CDT 2011

Chuck and I are really on the same page. Many times we differ on technique or gear, but, essentially, we are primarily concerned about hiker safety.

Regarding footwear, we both agree--wear something to protect your feet from injury. Yes, our tall gaiters do help a lot to keep water out of our boots when crossing creeks whose water level is below the top of the gaiter, otherwise, we take them off and wade across.

How to use your poles--Upstream does sound better and we'll try that out on Rock, Wallace, Wright, and Tyndall Creeks soon. When I used the term "torsion" I meant a sideways force against the pole that might cause it to "bend," so I think Chuck and I are in agreement there and to use the pole upstream as a third leg should minimize that force being placed on the pole.

Not crossing alone--again, we agree. We encourage hikers to face the opposite bank and cross side-by-side (in line with the current), holding onto each other's pant's belts (as if putting your arm around your wife's waist) in a firm grip and using each other for balance and a brace.

Good advice, Steel-Eye!

"Just remember, Be Careful out there!"

Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education
1106A Ski Run Blvd
South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
    P: 888-996-8333
    F: 530-541-1456
    C: 530-721-1551
    http://www.mountaineducation.org
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: CHUCK CHELIN 
  To: ned at mountaineducation.org 
  Cc: enyapjr at comcast.net ; pct-l at backcountry.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 5:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] kahtoola microspikes vs. kahtoola KTS alum

  Ned wrote about stream crossing:

  “- STOP: Stop, Think, Observe, and Plan. What this means to you, the "early-season" hiker, is that you don't have to cross the creek where the trail does! Drop your pack, grab some food or drink and walk up or down the creek looking for a dry crossing (rock-hop, log-walk, or jump) or, at least, some portion of the thing where you can see the bottom and it is shallower than elsewhere. It is common to find upstream that the creek has split into smaller feeder creeks that are narrower and more easily crossed. Once on the other side, follow the creek back to the trail. Beware of slippery surfaces like moss, wet logs or boulders, gravel on larger boulders, and, obviously, ice or snow.” 

  That’s good advise but I did get fooled once doing that kind of a recon.  The River-of-no-Return crossing north of Tuolumne Meadows is a narrow crack in a broad rock shield and I investigated upstream a short distance to find the best point to hop across.  On the other side I found “the trail” within 20 yards and continued in the general direction I had been going.  Unfortunately, just after crossing the creek the PCT makes a sharp left which I couldn’t see.  I went about a half mile up the trail toward Summit Lake before I discovered the error.

  “- Footwear: Protect your feet; they're all you have. It is common, again, to injure or cut your feet while crossing creeks bare-footed. Not an endorsed idea. Wearing footwear that does not completely protect the feet from damage while wedging between boulders or rocks submerged or from just banging into rocks while blindly hunting for a solid foot-fall or trying to stand on submerged rocks is just asking for trouble far from help. It is, also, common, to hurt your feet while crossing by stepping on something that sends pain up your leg. What this causes is a reaction where you have to suddenly remove and re-place your footing somewhere else as quickly as possible without loosing you balance and falling into the water. What you choose to protect your feet is your choice, but we cross in our traditional, leather hiking boots and change socks on the other side, then walk them dry, even on snow. Don't rely on any footwear that can be pried off when wedged between rocks.” 

  As I recall, you’re the guy that tells us that with your big, tall, heavy boots and gaiters your feet don’t get wet.  I never did understand how that works.  I avoid any crossing without some kind foot protection – usually just my shoes.  My feet become numb very quickly in that snowmelt water and it’s easy to wound feet without even knowing.

  “- Third leg: When you move your feet through a strong current, the foot wants to move sideways as soon as it is lifted. For balance meanwhile, have a long, sturdy stick found from the forest, a long staff, or both your poles in two hands downstream as a third leg to lean on while searching and hunting for each foot placement. Remember, typical hiking poles can not take torsional stress and will break or bend. Sudden, stabbing placements of single poles bearing most of your weight in an emergency balance recovery movement may cause the pole to bend in the middle, or where it is the thinnest, and then you are done and probably wet, too.”

  Be concerned here.  It is better to use the pole or stick upstream rather than downstream for the reasons noted at  http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=265511 and in Chapter-17 at http://www.equipped.org/fm3-0570.htm   Hiking poles are not subjected to torsion when in use, only bending and column loading.  When poles are used upstream they steady a hiker without having to accept high loads, and can be easily placed on the stream bed without stabbing.

  “- Grouping Up: It is seldom a bad idea to cross in pairs, holding each other side-by-side, using the other as the third leg, while searching for solid, predictable, and safe footing, then switch roles. This is the preferred method when crossing whitewater.” 

  I agree crossing with several companions is a very good idea, provided “side-by-side” means in line with the current rather than in a line crosswise of the current.

  Steel-Eye

  Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965

  http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye

  http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09

  On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 7:38 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:

    For the typical Spring, morning crusty snow (and occasional
    ice-on-the-trail) conditions you're going to find during the months of May,
    June, and July in the mountains of California, notably from San Jacinto
    north to Tahoe, the Kahtoola Microspikes will do just fine.

    We received a box of both, the microspikes and KTS units, the other day to
    product-test on our last Snow Basics Course, but the weather was simply so
    aweful and the snow so soft that they were not needed--no ice or crusty snow
    to be found! So, we'll have to take them out on the next Mountain Basics
    Course next month. Our primary concern, now, is whether the spikes will
    "ball-up" with wet, sticky snow (when the conditions are right) preventing
    spike contact with any surface at all (like walking on a half a softball).
    However, in these conditions, you don't need the things anyway, yet soft
    conditions can exist right next to a shady, icy area across which you're
    about to walk, so it is a concern we haven't yet tested. Kahtoola does make
    a "Snow Release Skin" for the KTS to help alleviate this problem, but not
    for the microspikes.

    In the meantime, upon playing with them, we are relieved to see that the
    "rubber bands" that hold the microspikes onto our boots more than held for
    running around on the lawn (we were concerned that the spikes would roll off
    the shoe during forceful, lateral, "catch-you-balance-quickly" sidesteps).
    In our case, Kahtoola sized the spikes to our boots, but we have heard that
    you might need the next size down when fitting to trailrunners so that they
    will fit tightly and predictably or add a Velcro strap over the instep.

    The KTS model looks killer, but overkill still against the average snow
    conditions thru hikers will see on their way through the Sierra. It was nice
    to see that the forward points are pointed more down than those of
    traditional crampons which point more forward having the tendency to cause
    soft tissue injuries in the unskilled user.

    "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"

    Ned Tibbits, Director
    Mountain Education
    1106A Ski Run Blvd
    South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
       P: 888-996-8333
       F: 530-541-1456
       C: 530-721-1551
       http://www.mountaineducation.org
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <enyapjr at comcast.net>
    To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
    Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 6:06 PM
    Subject: [pct-l] kahtoola microspikes vs. kahtoola KTS alum

    >> ...supposed to get me the kahtoola microspikes for the trail, and instead
    >> mistakenly got me the kahtoola KTS alum spikes.
    >> ...would I be better off with the microspikes...
    >
    > The KTS might be 4 or 5 ounces heavier, but you will love them!  They are
    > NOT
    > technical 'mountaineering' or 'ice' crampons...
    > They work very well with trail runners or running shoes, too - the
    > heel/toe
    > extender bar flexes just enough to be more comfortable while walking than
    > mountaineering crampons meant to be worn with stiff boots...
    > See <http://www.kahtoola.com/crampons.php> for more about the KTS...
    > Your trail companions will be envious!  "Don't look a gift horse in the
    > mouth."
    > :o)
    >
    > Happy trails!!!
    > Jim (PITA)
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