[pct-l] Gear for late spring snow?

Fri Nov 12 22:10:16 CST 2010

Good evening, Gary,

Thank you for your comments; let me add bit more explanation.  I’m not
primarily an alpine mountaineer -- I’m a hiker – but over many years I’ve
read the books, participated in the training, and hiked mostly alone in
alpine sections here in the Pacific NW.  My copy of “Mountaineering:
Freedom….”
is a second edition after my previous first edition disappeared somewhere.

I well understand the traditional recommendations for ice axe usage, and the
rationale behind those recommendations.  If I were conducting a class or
writing a book I would adhere closely to those recommendations because of
the cover associated with unanimity of “expert” opinion.  In my TrailJournal
writings, and here at PCT-L things are a bit different:  I only describe my
preferences and opinions without inference that anyone else should agree or
emulate.  This is consistent with a discussion group presenting a variety of
ideas rather than a bunch of people just reciting the book or regurgitating
what “everyone knows.”

Normal instruction is to carry the axe in the uphill hand with the pick
pointing rearward. Then, when one falls, the shaft is plunged into the snow
as far as possible leaving one on his/her side hanging onto the buried shaft
to stop a slide before it even begins.  Trying to substantially plunge the
shaft with every second step in anticipation of falling would make walking
very tedious indeed.

When  practicing the plunge maneuver during training the student walks on a
snowpack side-hill until the command is given then he/she yells “Falling!”
and plops onto the snow, simultaneously plunging the axe shaft.  Great – it
works almost every time once one gets the hang of it; ideally obviating the
subsequent need to reposition the rapidly-sliding body to perform a
classical arrest further downhill.

The problem is in an actual trail situation hikers become complacent, or
distracted, or unconcerned; then when a slip occurs the feet come out from
under the hiker so quickly that the shaft-plunge happens very poorly -- if
at all – and probably insufficient to stop a slide.  In that posture the
hiker is sliding downhill, with the uphill arm extended, holding onto the
head of the axe which is also pointing uphill and out of position for a
quick arrest.

The surprise aspect of a slide is nearly impossible to create for training
purposes, and if the slide isn’t a surprise any subsequent reaction is
contrived and not indicative of a real-world fall.  I don’t think there is
any good way of creating a surprise practice fall.

I’ve only made three “real” slide arrests; all three were minutes apart on
the same ice, and all three were performed with a trekking pole.  That’s not
recommended either.

Steel-Eye

Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965

http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye

http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Gary Schenk <gwschenk at socal.rr.com> wrote:

> On 11/12/2010 7:37 AM, CHUCK CHELIN wrote:
> > Good morning, all,
> > I don’t believe an ice axe is a must.  Thousands of hikers have
> successfully
> > thru or section-hiked the PCT without an ice axe and I believe that will
> > continue.  I generally believe that without having practiced arrest
> methods
> > an ice axe is less valuable to carry, however I also don’t believe that
> an
> > “untrained” hiker is doomed or should avoid the PCT.
> > http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=264671
>
> An interesting and well written article, Chuck.
>
> "The defining function of an ice axe, and probably the least-used, is as
> a means to self-arrest if one slides out of control down a slick,
> snowpack slope."
>
> IMO, self-belay is the most important function of the axe. Once you
> start falling, self-arrest only has a 50-50 chance of working according
> to the experts.
>
> "That is an important function but, as it’s been said by probably every
> expert: An axe isn’t worth carrying if one doesn’t know how to use it
> and hasn’t practiced doing so."
>
> Very true, and cannot be emphasized enough!
>
> "If the axe is in the uphill hand as described, the trekking pole in the
> downhill hand is substantially out of work – it can’t easily reach the
> down slope and it’s awkward to use on the upslope.
>
> If you are using this method, it sounds like you are throwing yourself
> out of balance, not good on a steep snow slope. Climbing in balance is a
> skill more important than the axe itself.
>
> "Next, the spike of an ice axe does not have a snow-basket so it is very
> likely to penetrate too deeply into the snowpack making stability less
> certain. "
>
> I want my axe shaft as deep in the snow as I can get it. This is
> self-belay.
>
> "Wouldn’t it be better to have a basket-equipped trekking pole in the
> uphill hand to enhance balance, while the downhill hand grasps the shaft
> of the ice axe – pick pointed down --across the chest in the perfect
> position to quickly begin an arrest?"
>
> Not at all. You want to climb snow slopes "in balance." The position of
> balance is with the uphill foot forward. The axe is carried in the
> uphill hand and placed as deeply into the snow as possible as
> self-belay. The downhill foot is moved up, then the uphill foot is moved
> up. The axe is only moved once you've returned to the position of balance.
>
> As you point out, thousands have thru-hiked without an axe. The only
> point of carrying one would be to give you a little more flexibility in
> ascending the big Sierra passes. With an axe and some sort of traction
> device (and the knowledge of how to use them), you can cross the big
> passes on your schedule, not theirs.
>
> As always, HYOH, YMMV.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>