[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 29, Issue 114
mntmn4jesus at aol.com
mntmn4jesus at aol.com
Tue May 25 00:07:37 CDT 2010
GoodEvening all,
Wow! I was really amazed at the response my few paragraphs generated, butfor the sake of those among us who are less experienced, I believe it isimportant to accurately assess the risks involved in hiking alone and to planaccordingly. I am not opposed to hiking alone. I do it all the timemyself for a variety of reasons and it is true that the risks of being aroundpeople is much greater than the backcountry, but that doesn't mean we shouldmake foolish choices that set us up for disaster either.
I rememberthe time I was caught in a partial tree well and had difficultly climbing outof it with my skis. Avalanche danger was also high that day and I thoughtto myself "I shouldn't be skiing alone out here". I was severalmiles in the backcountry completely alone on the mountain and off any regulartrails in steep terrain. Shortly after,as I approached my car, I almost got run over by a snowmobiler who came out ofnowhere. Immediately after getting in my car an SUV spun out of controland its back end almost hit my car coming from the other direction. Idecided the danger from the tree well and avalanche danger was far more predictableand easier to manage.
Just in case you were wondering, I have never carried in California and yes it is true that it takes anact of God to get a CCW permit in that state. As far as I can tell,everything is illegal in California except growing marijuana. Iam surprised Governor Schwarzenegger hasn't started charging fees to PCT users forbreathing fresh air and required a use permit for anyone carrying an iceax.
That said I also am more selective about the routes and situations I allowmyself to get involved in alone. There's alone on a trail and there's reallyalone where there is no trail and it is highly unlikely I will encounter anotherhuman over a large area. It is in those situations that I encounterwildlife of the ferocious kind. Case in pointn I encountered the samemountain lion above Spring Hill overlooking Climber's gully en route to HelenLake, while back country skiing at 2 am two nights in a row. It was earlyin the climbing season in April, and I was among the first climbers attempting to makethe summit on Mt Shasta last year. No one told the mountain lion that theweb site provided by the forest service assures climbers that mountain lionsnever venture above 7,000 feet in the area. When I skied out in the lightof day the next day I saw his tracks, and he was about a year old, tooyoung to know there wasn't any food except humans up there.
Unfortunately he kind of messed up my plans because I chose not to ski rightunder his nose until I could tell for sure whether it was another climber(their eyes are extremely luminescent in the dark which forced me to ski asteeper pitch on snow that was more ice than snow). I took a break on thehill to the right in a grove of trees and after studying him for a few minutesrealized that it definitely was not another climber (when I saw two eyesinstead of one when it got closer was the first clue). I waited 10minutes or so hoping that another climber's headlamp would appear from BunnyFlat a couple of miles or so below, but unfortunately no one was coming becauseit was too early in the season.
Finally, I reluctantly decided to turn around because I didn’t like theprospect of being alone with a mountain lion stalking me from behind with noescape route except back toward him, but ofcourse I had never skied downhill inthe dark on snow that forms like concrete at night. I was supposed to skiout in the day after the sun had turned the ice into pleasant corn snow. Because the ridge I was on went down sharply into Avalanche gulch I had to makemy body as rigid as possible and do a tight turn in these conditions back ontothe ridge where I was watching the mountain lion, and then ski right under hisnose and then on out. He watched me the entire time and just when I gotclosest to him my headlamp went dim as the batteries were giving out. Fortunately I had planned ahead, and had another one in my pocket with freshlithium batteries. I kept my eye on him the entire time and left bothlamps on to try to confuse him a little. (doubt if it made any differencebecause they can see as well at night as in the daytime). Then I slowlystarted skiing, stopping often to make sure he wasn't following me. (fortunatelyhe stayed on the ridge).
Determined to summit I got my room back in town, grabbed some rest and thenwent the next night. I decided this time to wait for anotherclimber. A young gentleman drove up named Craig and I told him my storyand asked if he minded if I hung with him until we got past Spring Hill. Ofcourse being young and full of testosterone, he gave the classic response “ifyou leave them alone they leave you alone”. Yeah right! he hungwith me tighter than a glove the until we began to separate at AvalancheGulch. I was on the ridge above (which I am sure made him feel a lotsafer knowing I had the high ground and was the most visible). As weneared Spring Hill sure enough there it was again in the exact samespot!!. When Craig stopped to take a break I called out to him to see ifhe could see it. Ofcourse he couldn't because the ridge was blocking hisview. But the interesting thing was, that as soon as he spoke, the animaldisappeared never to be seen again the entire night. I skied up to Helen Lake and looked behind me severaltimes. If the lion would have been there I definitely would have seen himuntil I got to 50 50 flat.
I share this experience to point out some things about encounters withwildlife. They are extremely perceptive and they are aware. If youread all of the encounters people have had with mountain lions, it is apparentthat they are very selective and they always pick out the weakestindividual. Most people that have encounters are alone when they areattacked (unless they attack children then they can be very brazen). Itis much more common for women to be attacked then men.
I agree that the PCT trail is probably relatively safe in comparison to beingsomewhere where people rarely venture. If or when I hike the PCT I will definitely bring some bear repellent orat least some mace to give a bear some bad odor and I do agree with the oneperson who commented that for it to do you any good you need to carry where itis readily accessible. I think where Iwould be most concerned is at night in my tent which is when most animals areup to the most no good.
There aremany other stories I could share, but I will spare you. I encourage everyone to always exercisesituational awareness and don’t take anything for granted. Always have a plan in the event theunimaginable happens. It’s a good ideato read stories about events that have actually occurred and what the personinvolved could have done to prevent the situation from becoming life threatening. I guess that is all part of the adventure ofhiking alone.
Best Wishesto Everyone for a safe and enjoyable time on the PCT.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 4:15 pm
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 29, Issue 114
Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to
pct-l at backcountry.net
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
pct-l-request at backcountry.net
You can reach the person managing the list at
pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Pct-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Burned body found on trail 2 miles west of Sunrise Hwy (Pea Hicks)
2. Re: oregon pct in June (CHUCK CHELIN)
3. Re: PCT bear attacks........... (CHUCK CHELIN)
4. PCT bear attacks........... (abiegen at cox.net)
5. Re: PCT bear attacks........... (David Ellzey)
6. Re: WHERE'S YOUR GUN?? (Brick Robbins)
7. PCT Bear attacks (Amanda L Silvestri)
8. Re: Burned body found on trail 2 miles west of Sunrise Hwy
(Brick Robbins)
9. Re: PCT bear attacks........... (Eric Lee)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 15:27:10 -0700
From: Pea Hicks <phix at optigan.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Burned body found on trail 2 miles west of Sunrise
Hwy
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <4BFAFD3E.6080009 at optigan.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Thought this might be of some interest, given the proximity to the PCT.
As far as I know, they haven't released the exact location:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/23/mans-body-found-east-county/
Girlscout
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 15:27:21 -0700
From: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] oregon pct in June
To: Lynette and Anthony Tovar <mountaintovars at yahoo.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimLQq52nduREHUx5rZhzborbk_-e2vXWtsIHD1Z at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Good afternoon, Wiz,
Beginning 11 June you will initially be encouraged by bare trails much of
the way south out of the Columbia Gorge, but the PCT very quickly climbs to
the 4,000 ft. Benson Plateau where you will likely encounter snowpack. If
you alternatively choose to use Eagle Creek, the first 8 miles is at low
altitude and snow-free, but it also quickly climbs up the northern aspect of
a deep, narrow, shady canyon where there will probably be snow before Wahtum
Lake. The snow depiction at
http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/support/water/westwide/snowpack/wy2010/snow1005.gifshows
the snowpack in N. Oregon to be about average.
PCT MOM sent you a link for the Snotel sites. The ?Blazed Alder? site is
typical of Benson Plateau, but a bit west near the Bull Run Reservoir. Further
south after crossing the road at Lolo Pass the trail begins a climb up Mt.
Hood?s skirts. After some ups and downs on generally shaded and
snow-covered northwestern aspects the PCT eventually crosses about ? mile
above timberline lodge at 6,100 ft. The conditions at Timberline can be
seen at: http://www.timberlinelodge.com/conditions/ where they are
currently reporting a 151? depth.
There should be hiker tracks on all or part of this distance from the
Columbia; there are lots of whocko, all-season hikers in the area. An ice
axe is not usually necessary because there aren?t many big, steep, open
hillsides to traverse. If you slip you would probably snag in tall brush or
hit a tree before you could deploy the axe for an arrest. Besides, there
will probably be lots of postholing and two legs, up to the crotch in snow,
is a pretty good arrest.
That early in the season the southern Sandy River ford near Ramona Falls
could be a bit of a problem, particularly in the afternoon when the day?s
melt is draining. The PCT Communicator magazine arrived today with a photo
of a woman crossing a temporary foot bridge at the Sandy River ford, but
those logs wash away in the spring and probably will not have been replaced
by the time you get there. There could also be about 10 times more water. The
first crossing at Sandy?s Muddy Fork has a relatively high foot bridge and
should be OK.
South of Mt. Hood the trail will become increasingly walkable, even though
partially covered. Note on the NRCS site that Central Oregon is below
average in snowpack but the potential for mosquitoes is great. Much of the
time in June and early July I find myself wearing shorts and a tee-shirt,
sweating in bright sun while walking on 2-10 ft. of snowpack, all while
being eaten alive by mosquitoes. The aggravation of that situation is not
fully compensated by its novelty.
Good luck,
Steel-Eye
Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT ? 1965
http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Lynette and Anthony Tovar <
mountaintovars at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am planning a solo hike of the Oregon section of the PCT (north to south)
> with a starting date of June 11.
>
> One Oregon PCT vet thinks the trail will be blocked with snow.
> The PCT book by Schaffer and Selters says I will be mosquito infested.
>
> Am I crazy? Is the trip feasible?
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Wizard Mentor (Wiz)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 15:46:29 -0700
From: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT bear attacks...........
To: Bill Burge <bill at burge.com>
Cc: PCT-1 List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikXsxRyhiEKBw7VPEZAu0xxqsx8SETlCENa5X4Z at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Good afternoon,
Here's a real scary animal:
http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=532597
Steel-Eye
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Bill Burge <bill at burge.com> wrote:
> This one sounded life threatening:
>
> Kern County, August 1998 ? ... The man sustained extensive damage to both
> his forearms, as well as deep cuts to his back and more superficial wounds
> to his legs. ...
>
> Butt, this one made me snicker:
>
> Mono County, April 1996 ? A man received a bite on the buttocks from a
> young bear. Further details are not known.
>
> Same incident described in a different source:
>
> April 1996: In the town of Mammoth in the eastern Sierra, a bear approached
> a man working on his pick-up truck at his home, bit him in the butt, then
> ran off.
>
>
> BillB
>
>
> On May 24, 2010, at 3:03 PM, Eric Lee wrote:
>
> >
> > Bill wrote:
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Oh, I was confused when you said:
> >>
> >> "At the time of my research, there had never been *any* documented
> >> fatalities or serious injuries from black bears in California, ever."
> >>
> >> The "or serious injuries" kinda through me.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Ok, now I understand what you were saying.
> >
> >
> >
> > I got the bit about "no serious injuries" from this article:
> http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/bears/17275/2. That's not a
> government source but the author seems to be knowledgable. Wikipedia
> defines "serious bodily injury" as any injury that substantially risks death
> of the victim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injury). Looking over the
> list of incidents on the California Fish and Game web site, none of them are
> specifically described as resulting in life-threatening injuries, though
> several of them are definitely injuries that I wouldn't want to deal with
> myself.
> >
> >
> >
> > Make of that what you will.
> >
> >
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
> inbox.
> >
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 18:46:43 -0400
From: <abiegen at cox.net>
Subject: [pct-l] PCT bear attacks...........
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20100524184643.VKT2I.503711.imail at fed1rmwml35>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
BillB wrote:
>Butt, this one made me snicker:
>Mono County, April 1996 ? A man received a bite on the buttocks from a young
>bear. Further details are not known.
>Same incident described in a different source:
>April 1996: In the town of Mammoth in the eastern Sierra, a bear approached a
>man working on his pick-up truck at his home, bit him in the butt, then ran
off.
If he was working on his truck with his buttocks protruding then he really
couldn't see who did it. When there is violence at home it is normal to first
suspect the spouse not some innocent bypassing bear. Does the wife have an
alibi?
At any rate it was probably justly deserved punishment for exposing mechanics'
crack.
TrailHacker
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 17:47:22 -0500
From: David Ellzey <david at xpletive.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT bear attacks...........
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<3CF44C7E5B716541B6A0A9AF694AC663334FD3BCAE at AUSP01VMBX02.collaborationhost.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Eric,
Just to put this in context, do you have statistics regarding domestic dog bite
injuries/fatalities for California?
BigToe
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On
Behalf Of Eric Lee
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:46 PM
To: zaqueltooocool at gmail.com; pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT bear attacks...........
PCT MOM wrote:
>
How many PCT hikers (or other humans) have been injured or killed by bears
in the last 30 years ?
>
PCT hikers: none.
I researched the statistics for bear and mountain lion fatalities back in
2004. I suppose the numbers are out of date now but still serve to make a
point. At the time of my research, there had never been *any* documented
fatalities or serious injuries from black bears in California, ever.
Looking more broadly, there had been a grand total of 11 fatalities from
black bears in all of the lower 48 states in 103 years. It appeared that
mountain lion fatalities were more common than bear fatalities, at least in
California (5 fatalities in 114 years in California, don't know about the
lower 48).
Needless to say these numbers are *ridiculously* low. Compare them to the
~50,000 automobile fatalities per year in the U.S., or ~73 lightning
fatalities per year in the U.S. PER YEAR! Statistically, you're ~730 times
more likely to die from a lightning strike than from a black bear attack.
Think about that the next time you're pushing over a high Sierra pass in the
afternoon, trying to beat those thunderheads on the horizon.
Eric
_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2892 - Release Date: 05/23/10
11:26:00
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 15:58:53 -0700
From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] WHERE'S YOUR GUN??
To: bighummel at aol.com
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<AANLkTilbVoXIjYnnoxFFyiqimf2SbEm5wyjh8_SMafly at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dude, you are 6'6"
You don't NEED an ice axe to deter threats from miscreants.
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 11:14 AM, <bighummel at aol.com> wrote:
> I've always found that an ice axe properly wielded seems to be sufficient
deterrent to any threats on my safety by miscreants. ?Especially if I raise one
eyebrow and scowl at the bastards with a crazy look.
>
>
> Greg Hummel
>
>
> " Travel far, carry little, keep it simple, lighten up!"
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 9:10 am
> Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 29, Issue 108
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 16:10:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Amanda L Silvestri <aslive at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Bear attacks
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <656225.42795.qm at web80804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I looked over these bear incidents and noticed the following. Since 1986 there
have just been 12 attacks in 26 years, or less than two attacks a year.
Of the twelve, three involved a sow with cubs. Nuff said about that.
Of the remaining nine, one involved a man feeding the bears. Well...
Of the eight remaining, two involved attempts by the bear to steel food and in
each case it was chased away after the "victim" began acting aggressively".
Of the five left, one man was swatted after sitting up and startling the bear
that swatted him, and then ran away. No sudden moves now.
This leaves four, and of those one just says that a man was bitten but has no
details so who knows what that was about.
Now there are three. One involves young bears that were without their mother
(with whom they had been seen with the preceeding year) they are now on their
own and adapting by returning to where momma took them, in an area where there
had been guarbage before. This speaks to camping away from established camping
areas - stealth camping.
Another one involves camping in a large camping area, again an area where
garbage is likely to be found and an argument for stealth camping.
The last one found the camper in the middle of a fight between two Boars?
Perhaps he meant bears. Again the bear that attacked the tent and was chased
off by swing a trekking pole at it. I assume the camper also may have yelled at
the bear.
While no attract is a good attack, some of these would have been prevented by
paying attention or not camping where bears have learned to look for food.
Being prepared to fight for your food or confronting the bear again proved to be
a solid behavior to drive him away.
This leaves the one case of the two thirteen-year-old boys who were in their
sleeping bags. The boys said that they had hung their food away from the tent
but we don't know if there was a forgotten candy bar in a pocket or some late
night snack in the bag. Perhaps sun block, chap stick or insect repellent was
in there with them. This was an area with cabins and garbage so the bears were
used to looking around here for food but the aggressive nature of this attack is
unheard of for a black bear. Who knows about this one.
Bottom line is that black bear attacks on an adult human are uncommon, more
often than not they are a faint or a defense of food or cubs. If you camp away
from established camp sites, use a bear can and don?t have anything that smells
in your tent or sleeping bag or shirt pocket and pay attention when you have
your food out., you should be okay.
Shepherd
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 16:13:18 -0700
From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burned body found on trail 2 miles west of
Sunrise Hwy
To: Pea Hicks <phix at optigan.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<AANLkTindVG9iSV0duXlte2GwVoJBSC9KPuWeAXcQxXIr at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The vague descriptions of location put the body in the Nobel Canyon area.
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Pea Hicks <phix at optigan.com> wrote:
> Thought this might be of some interest, given the proximity to the PCT.
> As far as I know, they haven't released the exact location:
>
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/23/mans-body-found-east-county/
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 16:15:00 -0700
From: Eric Lee <saintgimp at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT bear attacks...........
To: <david at xpletive.com>, PCT-1 <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <BAY145-w12EC239F831C3FD338D588BDE70 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
BigToe wrote:
>
> Just to put this in context, do you have statistics regarding domestic dog
bite injuries/fatalities for California?
>
According to a fairly old article published by the CDC at http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm,
there were 279 dog-attack fatalities across the U.S. for the 15 years from 1979
to 1994, or about 18 per year, compared to 0.1 per year for bears.
The other factor that influences an evaluation of risk is the population size
and rate of exposure. That is, there are a lot more dog-related fatalities than
bear-related fatalities, but then there are presumably a lot more dogs in the
U.S. than bears and a lot more people are regularly exposed to dogs than to
bears. So is the average dog more dangerous than the average bear? I have no
idea.
The CDC article goes on to state, "In 1986, nonfatal dog bites resulted in an
estimated 585,000 injuries that required medical attention or restricted
activity; in that year, dog bites ranked 12th among the leading causes of
nonfatal injury in the United States. In 1994, an estimated 4.7 million persons
(1.8% of the U.S. population) sustained a dog bite; of these, approximately
800,000 (0.3%) sought medical care for the bite."
Wow, that's a lot of dog bites.
I think the comparison to lightning is more interesting because at least there
you're talking about kinda/sorta the same group of outdoor enthusiasts. Still
pretty rough, though.
Eric
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 29, Issue 114
**************************************
More information about the Pct-L
mailing list