[pct-l] VVR2 / using the word 'shady'

[Junaid Dawud]

I've never sent anyone, you, Jim, anyone, an off list / private email.  
There is no duplicity here. I always say what I mean, regardless of  
who I'm speaking to. All of my posts have been to the pct-l.

I've also been completely consistent about stating and restating that  
these are simply my opinions based on my experiences. I'm not a  
reporter, just one of many hikers.

I have perhaps been unclear about the unclaimed boxes being sold  
seeming shady vs the owner seeming shady. I can clear that up now. My  
interactions with him gave me a shady impression, the practice of  
reselling unclaimed packages also seems shady. Again, simply my opinion.

My 'mistake' wasn't paying $10 for my package, or even going to vvr.  
It was NOT having researched and found out about mono hotsprings,  
which I loved. I'm not even 'anti-vvr', many love it and it provides  
hiker services, so good on em. I just like mono and wish I had known  
about it prior to arriving. It would've saved me money and taken less  
time than going to both.

Sorry for starting such a high emotions thread, I just like mono  
hotsprings.


Junaid

On Mar 12, 2010, at 10:01 AM, Vermilion Valley Resort <pct-l at edisonlake.com 
 > wrote:

> Junaid,
>
> A lot of this is stemming from the fact that you can't get your  
> accusations straight.
>
> By that I mean that on the list, you are talking about us taking  
> stuff out of the unclaimed resupply boxes and selling it - something  
> that is no secret - our website specifically states that we do this  
> from time to time for unclaimed boxes.  This is what I've been  
> defending against on the list.
>
> BUT.. in private, in emails between you and I, and you and Jim, you  
> accuse us of taking things out of the hiker barrels - something we  
> never do, and something that would be almost sacrilegious to us and  
> many others.
>
> So which is it?  Are you upset about the unclaimed boxes, or the  
> hiker barrels?  The persisting rumor is that we take out of the  
> hiker barrels... which we NEVER do.  We used to clean the barrels of  
> spoiled stuff; we don't even do that anymore - we let the hikers  
> police the barrel themselves.
>
> You state here that you stated only your opinion and qualified it as  
> such.  In your email to Jim you state that you never called him  
> shady, but referred to the practice as shady (which you've done here  
> again).
>
> First - in your original posting to this very list with the subject  
> line of "Mistakes", you specifically say "Then, sending a package to  
> VVR, I think the owner was shady."  To me, that's calling the owner  
> shady without anything to back it up.  Not the practice - the owner.
>
> Secondly, the term "shady" as you use it, is defined on  
> dictionary.com as:
>
> "of dubious character; rather disreputable: shady dealings."
>
> Which effectively brings the character of Jim and his staff into  
> question.  How can this policy be "shady", when it's done out in the  
> open, and is clearly identified on the resupply page of the  
> website?  And how can anyone implementing this policy be considered  
> shady when you know of it ahead of time?  If you look at our  
> resupply page to get the resupply address, the policy is clearly  
> discussed there - http://www.edisonlake.com/hikers/resupply.  And  
> quite frankly, if the original owner doesn't care about his/her box  
> and lets it go unclaimed, why do you care what we do with it?
>
> Finally... if this policy is "shady" to you - what would you suggest  
> we do to recoup the costs of picking up the resupply box 1 hour away  
> at Rancheria Garage, driving it down the road to VVR, logging it in,  
> and storing it?  If we can't recoup that cost, storing resupply  
> boxes might end up being a losing proposition for us - which would  
> force us to stop offering the service.  We certainly don't want to  
> do that... it's an important service that we provide.  So... do you  
> have an alternative solution?  If somebody doesn't pick up their  
> resupply, and doesn't contact us - what should we do about it?  Ship  
> it back?!?  At our cost?!?  Tell me who on the trail does that to an  
> unclaimed box.  And what business could survive doing that on a  
> consistent basis?
>
> I appreciate that you say these are just your opinions.  Fine - then  
> present them as such, and please don't make unfounded accusations.   
> If you must make accusations... make them consistently and offer  
> some sort of proof.  I'm tired of addressing one accusation  
> publicly, and another privately.
>
> Jim has already contacted you and made the offer for you to visit  
> over a beer, rather than discuss this any further over a keyboard.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:06 AM, Junaid Dawud wrote:
>
>> Ok. First off, my opinions were offered as just that, opinions. If  
>> you
>> don't like my opinions or have some that run contrary to mine, that's
>> great - I'm probably in the minority on this one. I'd like to think
>> that the pct-l is a forum where reasonable minds may differ (though
>> some of the silly wars I saw in 2006 and the current assault on the
>> people hiking with a baby would suggest that this is not always so).
>>
>> As Ive already said, VVR was a mistake FOR ME. I say that primarily
>> because I think mono hotsprings is a better place FOR ME. Why? --->
>> hotsprings, free camping, a PO, a warm lake with fun cliff jumping.
>>
>> And again, as I've said, many liked vvr and I'm not trying to tell
>> people that they should not go, indeed the pie alone could be worth
>> the visit.
>>
>> I did in fact talk to the owner about the resupply merchandise on his
>> shelves. He said what others have said, he opens the unclaimed boxes
>> at the end of the season and sells the stuff. For some thats fine, I
>> do think it's shady. To my knowledge there are no other places we  
>> send
>> packages that do this.
>>
>> Some have urged me to offer a speedy and public apology so as to
>> maintain the good will of the vvr folks to hikers and to avoid a
>> lawsuit. Let me be clear, I will never offer such an apology. Ever. I
>> stated my opinions and qualified them as such. I invited the VVR  
>> folks
>> to offer their perspective, which they have. People with minds can
>> read both sides and make their own decisions about what they want  
>> to do.
>>
>> To the folks at VVR, I'd suggest that the persistence of the 'rumor'
>> has much to do with the fact that there's some truth to it: unclaimed
>> boxes become merchandise. I had boxes I didn't claim at other  
>> resupply
>> points, they were returned to me. You might consider rethinking your
>> practice, contact other businesses that cater to hikers and see how
>> they handle unclaimed boxes.
>>
>> Finally, get a grip people. It's a discussion forum, let's discuss
>> without getting so worked up that spittle accumulates on our screens.
>>
>> "above all else remember this: to thine own self be true."
>>
>> Junaid
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