[pct-l] The traditional Boot choice (long)

[ned at mountaineducation.org]

Hi, Tom!

We had incredible testimonies this Spring while filming in the snow along the Crest north of KM for a couple of months of the durability, waterproof qualities, comfort, and protection afforded to us through our traditional, full leather boots. I have used lightweight hiking boots in the past and they worked for a few miles until they got soft and could no longer provide adequate ankle protection and support to prevent sprains, leaked because dirt got into the Gore-tex and worked like a wick letting water in, and the soles wore down too quickly (in comparison) allowing me to slip too much, especially in the snow where I needed all the more contact, predictability of balance, and control. The thought of trail runners is out of the question, but that is just borne out of our experience of hiking and teaching in the snow since 1973.

Please keep in mind where the four of us at Mountain Education come from. We all have different size and shaped feet with different arches, toes, and unique deformities (feet go through a hellava beating). Some of us carry packs that are light, heavy, or no pack weight at all (pull sleds). We use the same footwear for snowshoeing, summer trail hiking, and creek crossing. We have not always been together to influence each other's footwear decisions. Some have hiked a lot in the past and some have not. We all have independently chosen the traditional leather hiking boot. 

I know that there is a lot of discussion on this subject. The choice of footwear for the high-punishment dream of thru-hiking is one that must come from an intimate and personal understanding of what's required by the trail and provided by the shoe and the subsequent experiences that result from testing different types out on-trail for yourself. Durable boots were what was readily available in the past, thus we used them. When other fabrics, rubber compounds, and lighter designs became available, we tried those and made up our own minds as to what "worked best for our feet" in the conditions where we wanted to travel. We've "been there" and have made our choices. Other hikers need to make their own.

If you don't have the time to Trial and Test a product for yourself, people tend to research the product's performance by reading what other's thought of it when they tried it out, whether on a thru hike or just a short trip written about in Backpacker Magazine. The mistake they make in so doing is assuming their own subsequent experience with the product will be the same. This, unfortunately, often results in shattered expectations, feet, and trip because everybody has an ever-so-slightly different foot, the trail surface wasn't the same, the weather was worse, packs were lighter, the trail was steeper, and any of a number of variables that contribute to a different experience with the product (I keep saying "product" because we could be talking about pads, sleeping bags, socks, insoles, stoves, or nearly anything else we have to interact with on the trail).

If you're planning a thru hike where you will be hiking a lot of miles per day for months on end, you'll need to take this selection process, one of Trail and Testing, seriously. If you don't and you just launch yourself out there, day one, with a choice based on someone else's experiences, your feet are going to have a talk with you! Now, hopefully, this won't be too painful, but when it comes to feet that are being beaten up with every step because the shoe is too tight, too long, too wide, doesn't have enough arch support, the sole is too thin causing stones, roots, and rock edges to poke through and beat up the plantar fascia or other soft tissue, the feet aren't "breathing" well enough, have to share space with alien little stones, dirt, and twigs that like to hop in, socks are folding and creating pressure points and ridges, or rivets and stitching are irritating, your feet will tend to speak up about it and, basically, stop being willing to go along with the program.

I'm sorry, but we're skeptical of fads, fashion trends, and anything new that we haven't yet tested for ourselves in the environment and under the conditions where we expect to be using the product. In order to make money, companies come up with new ideas and materials to make "better" proverbial "mouse traps" and they market them as the "newest and greatest" for us to buy and test for ourselves. Some of this stuff may work great under the conditions you put them through, but you have to find this out for yourself. Now, other people's comments can steer you toward the right category, not all "cars" are race cars, so too in shoes. Within that category will be many other choices, the differences between them you'll need to differentiate (this is where further testing commentary can help) and this is where your personal Trail and Testing comes back into the picture.

"For us," the traditional boot protects and holds our feet so they don't get wet or injured, are repeatably "waterproofable," wrap and support the ankle so that they don't "twist" or "roll," adds "swing weight" which we like, provide a stable and predictably firm shank and sole platform upon which we can kick steps in snow and ice, balance on 20% contact (side edge, heel, or toe), and pound down granite trails without fear of injury, and last a long time so we don't have to buy another for many trips ahead (on the pct and cdt, I resoled only once, each trip). Our feet "breathe" well and don't get hot, even in the desert, and don't get blisters, even when the boots were not broken-in. With tall gaitors, we could even wade through mid-shin deep creeks and not get our feet wet! "For us," dry, protected feet are happy feet. 

Each hiker needs to find the type of footwear that provides this to their feet. Under the premise that weight on your feet is a "bad thing," hikers, not wanting to make a bad choice, will consider the lighter, softer designs, first, that may not provide all of the above in order to be lighter. Decide whether you can safely accomplish your thru hike by accepting compromises in any area by Testing and Trial beforehand. Unfortunately with shoes, you can't rent them like tents in order to try them out, you have to buy them. (Now, maybe at a store like REI you can return them after using, I don't know). So, prior to your thru hike, you're going to have to take enough trips in the expected conditions and on the expected trails (or satisfyingly similar--this means rocks, roots, sand, water, creeks, etc.) to know whether you are going to pronounce a particular shoe or not and look for another.

So, we have chosen the Limmer Boot brand and endorse it completely. We have beaten the "snot" out of them and they simply "keep on running." They fit like a glove such that even the most anti-boot of us choose to wear them daily, even around town. They can be obtained as a custom-fit, custom-built boot ( http://www.limmercustomboot.com/ ) or straight off the shelf with only requisite foot tracings to guarantee that killer fit (http://limmerboot.com/). Of the leather designs, we have tried and tested Vasque, Red Wing, Asolo, Lowe, Raichle, and Pivetta over the past 44 years.

Along with the Limmers, we endorse Superfeet (blue) for insoles and Smartwool Trekkers or Mountaineering Extras for socks. With these three together, our feet are happy in the snow, in the creeks, on the desert sand, and pounding down those aweful, granite steps so common along graded trail these days. If you have "special" feet, consider custom orthotics for just the right kind of support your particular feet need.

We hope that you made it through this exhaustive commentary and have gained a little insight to the "other side," maybe enough to go out and test a traditional leather boot for yourself. This and more will be written about footwear in our Snow Guide to The Pacific Crest Trail.



Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education
1106A Ski Run Blvd
South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
    P: 888-996-8333
    F: 530-541-1456
    C: 530-721-1551
    http://www.mountaineducation.org
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tom aterno 
  To: ned at mountaineducation.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] Light vs. Ultralight


        Hi Ned,

        I am wondering what type of boots you use?

        I am being transferred back to Massachusetts at the end of the year, and I'll be backpacking in the rain and snow, as I did a long time ago (1970s).  I think it would be wise to get a good pair of boots again.  I had Vasque and Fabiano boots in the 1970s.  I don't know of a good boot manufacturer these days.  I have wide feet, courtesy of backpacking and hiking in trail runners.  Also, what socks do you use?  I am aware that all feet are different.  I'm just trying to gather info before making a decision, because I do know that good boots are expensive.

        I'll be interested in hearing what you use.



        Thanks,
        Tom KI6ASP
        The Incredible Bulk
        pctaddict.blogspot.com

        --- On Mon, 8/23/10, ned at mountaineducation.org <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:


          From: ned at mountaineducation.org <ned at mountaineducation.org>
          Subject: [pct-l] Light vs. Ultralight
          To: "PCT MailingList" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
          Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 5:20 PM


          It is your personal choice what you decide to carry, where you decide to go, and how you choose to travel. All that we at Mountain Education strive to encourage is that you be informed of the realities of the trail, understanding the challenges ahead of you, prepare for them, including the skills to safely overcome them, and exercise your best judgment, after going out on the trail and testing yourself, gear, and food systems, regarding the above as far as what actually "works" for you.

          The less weight on your back, the better! However, do not sacrifice your safety and that of your rescuers (based on your anticipated ability to perform what you know and the skills you have practiced relative to the possible situations you may encounter) when you choose to either not bring something or bring something that is simply not up to the task.

          For example, really lightweight pant shells usually do not survive an icy glissade and get ripped to shreds. Descents off passes like Forester or Mather (northbound) afford great glissade possibilities, but will your pants or gear protect you from getting wet and cold? Maybe this doesn't matter to you, but at least consider the consequences. If you brought dry, warm clothes to change into at the bottom of a short slide, then this is your solution. If the glissade is a long one, then you may be one frost-bitten mess once at the bottom. Stuff to consider. 

          Along the Spring, snow-covered "trail" this May thru July we met many thrus that simply carried a small pad or piece of plastic on which to glissade. (We assumed that this was their informed and chosen method of safely glissading down from the high passes). In all practicality, we would like to hear from them, "Did that keep you from getting wet? Were you still able to self-arrest while both hands were holding onto the pad/plastic? Where was your ice axe at the time? Did you wear gloves so that your hands didn't get ripped up by the crusty ice? Were you able to steer? Would the pad/plastic ever get wrenched out of your hands?"

          The objective of good Planning and Preparation is to investigate, test, train/practice, and organize into supplies the choices you have come to based on the information you have gathered and experience obtained. First there is Understanding, then there is Experience. Know the difference.

          To some, it is their goal to hike as light as possible, to see for themselves what little they really need and still "get by" without too much discomfort or risk (based on what they know the realities of the trail to be from their own prior experiences). Fantastic! Go for it! What a great challenge! However, this may not be the choice for everyone. 

          The principle that lighter can be more comfortable while walking, balancing across a creek crossing or field of suncups, ascending morning snow and ice, or descending those awful granite "stair steps" that can be an 18 inch drop  certainly is true, but what of the rest of the time? Sure, a lightweight poncho is great for rainwear--as long as you don't mind you legs getting wet and the air temp stays warm. Sure, lightweight rain pants will get the job done, but don't sit down on anything that might rip it (you should test this out for yourself before you rely on it later). Sure, a lighter sleeping bag will lessen the overall weight of your pack, but are you certain that the temperatures you expect to encounter on your trip will remain within its tolerable range or is it possible that a cold front or storm might blow in and you'll have to endure a cold, sleepless night?

          What of the times not hiking? Is it your purpose to be out there walking from sun-up to sun-down? Will you ever have to cook inside your tent, thereby ruling out the alcohol stove? Could you experience a high-wind, horizontal rain storm which might make questionable some tarp and tent designs at keeping you dry throughout the night? 

          What you bring, the design, quality, and durability of it may dictate how enjoyable and safe your trip will be, all systems included, here. One hiker may have the skills experience to know how to set up a tarp-tent in all nasty conditions, on all types of surfaces, including granite, and in a panic, so he or she can have a lighter pack whereas another does not and should not rely on this type of shelter. One hiker may elect to carry and use a ULA Potty Trowel as an ice axe, aware that it may self-destruct in the process, in order to save weight, and regret it later when rescued or worse. Another may choose short gaitors over tall ones in order to save weight or volume only to get severely cut up while post-holing against a submerged boulder.  All these concerns must be addressed in your Planning and Preparation stage for you to make an informed decision based on Experience rather than just Understanding. Hike Your Own Hike, but be ready for it!



          Ned Tibbits, Director
          Mountain Education
          1106A Ski Run Blvd
          South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
              P: 888-996-8333
              F: 530-541-1456
              C: 530-721-1551
              http://www.mountaineducation.org
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