[pct-l] Using the Ursack without the aluminum

[Matt Thyer]

Gary, et al.,

You're missing the point.  All of these products are engineered to withstand a bear intrusion.  However, as far as I can tell, there is no standard for this kind of engineering, and thus the rules *are* arbitrary.  A DM can point to a list of "approved" canisters but can't tell anyone why that list is approved and why another list is not.  Worse, in the absence of an engineering standard I can find no regulation.  I see plenty of references to regulation, but not that actual rule.  I'm guessing here, but I find it unlikely that a rule would name specific manufactures of bear food protection.  Rather there is most likely a stated goal (like "will protect food, or prevent bear access") with some basic rules for compliance.  There may be guidance offered which indicates how compliance should be tested as well, but beyond that and a fee schedule the rule probably says little.

Think of it this way, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration won't tell you that you can't drive a car you made in your backyard.  They will tell you the following 1) what the rules are in place that you must meet for you to drive any car on shared road surfaces 2) how you can test for compliance regarding these rules and 3) what your options are if you want to do something else, up to and including what the penalty might be if you chose to disobey these rules.

While I am trying to save myself some weight (13 ounces in particular) I'd also like to take an engineered approach to prevent bear intrusion.  Otherwise, why would I bother with the 9 ounce sack at all (I can carry my food in something much lighter)?  Regulation should have an object measure that can be reached by way of engineering.  Brand name shouldn't *ever* play a part; I might be cooking something up in my back yard.  Without an engineering standard any attempt at regulation becomes a kind of product endorsement and this lacks objectivity which may result in litigation.

Matt


-----Original Message-----
From: gwschenk at socal.rr.com [mailto:gwschenk at socal.rr.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:26 AM
To: 'PCT MailingList'; Matt Thyer
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Using the Ursack without the aluminum

IMHO, the rules are not arbitrary. The bears in the parks are smart, resourceful and determined. The only thing that will protect your food, the bear and you is a bear canister, bear locker or sheer dumb luck. The Ursack doesn't do its intended job in places like national parks. Maybe the bear won't get your food in a Ursack, but you'll be stuck with a wad of bear slobbered muck.

Outside of the parks it is an unnecessary expense as simple and cheap nylon stuff sacks will do the same job of containing your food.

That's my experience, anyway. YMMV.

Gary